TPU49 – Podcasting as a Business: Interview with Mark Savant (After hours Entrepreneur)

Episode-49

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[00:00:00] Mark: The first thing I would ask is why, what is the goal of this podcast? Why am I doing it? Am I doing it because I want more clients? Is it because I want to build my network? Is it because I want to support my community? Is it because I want to learn, like, what is your, why? Cause if you're not clear on why you even want a podcast, you know, it

[00:00:21] it's kind of doomed, right? So why do I want to podcast.

[00:00:28] Dilip: Welcome to the podcasting university, looking for help on starting your own podcast then this is the place to be. We will help you with everything from selecting your topic to promoting and monetizing your podcast in the simplest language possible. Listen to other podcasters who have been through the grind and learn from them as we interview them every week.

[00:00:51] You can find more details on the podcasting university.com.[00:01:00]

[00:01:02] Hello, and welcome to episode 49 of the podcasting university. This is your host Dilip. And in this episode, we are going to talk about running podcasting as a business, but then the question is, can podcasting be a business? This is a question that a lot of people ask me and while the answer is a BIG YES,

[00:01:23] it is important that you know, that creating a few episodes and putting it out there isn't enough to believe that it is a business. Podcasting needs a proper strategy around. And it needs to be treated just like a business if you're looking at running it as a business. So in today's episode, I have a guest who will give you more clarity on this.

[00:01:49] He runs a business that is centered around podcasting. In fact, he began podcasting over five years ago and found that people were ready to pay [00:02:00] him to help grow their podcast, which is where his company, the Mark Savant media was born. He offers podcast consulting, launch kits, and production, and also helps podcasters through a private community.

[00:02:13] The podcast Savant mastermind program that he runs offers clarity to podcasters via monthly trainings, support, promotion, networking, et cetera. So if you ever felt lost or lonely on your podcasting journey, then this network solves that problem. He's a passionate father, a husband, and a community leader, and he believes the more you give, the more you receive, which is something that is my mantra too.

[00:02:40] So let's welcome Mark Savant to the podcasting university. Hi Mark, welcome to the podcasting university. And thanks for taking the time out to come on the show and share your insights about podcasting.

[00:02:54] Mark: Hey, what is up? I am so thrilled to be here, Dilip and podcasting university. I'm excited to talk about [00:03:00] podcasting.

[00:03:00] Its such a great topic, such a timely topic, and it's such an important way to communicate. So let's get into it.

[00:03:06] Dilip: Yeah, absolutely. So mark, before we get started, it makes sense for us to understand a little more about you and, your podcast, the after hours entrepreneurs. So, so that the audience gets to know about all of the experience that you're bringing in.

[00:03:20] So if you could just tell us a little about you and what you do outside of podcasting, that'll be great.

[00:03:26] Mark: Yeah, absolutely. My story started really about five years ago. I was not happy with my job. Wasn't loving it. Wasn't feeling it, didn't love the way that my life was trending. And so I started trying all these different types of businesses develop everything from insurance to financial planning, financial management, all these different things, boring stuff.

[00:03:50] And what I found on that journey was that I was listening to a lot of podcasts to try to give myself direction. And along that journey. I recognize that [00:04:00] I'm learning so much from these podcasts. I'm getting so much value. Why don't I launch my own? And so at that time I did my first podcast.

[00:04:09] What the heck am I going to talk about? I don't know. I'm an, I work in an insurance industry right and I was a new father and I combined that with my passion for, for the audio platform. And so I created a show called the awesome dad show, which you can still listen to today actually. So I launched show the awesome dad show.

[00:04:30] And I created a group on Facebook, the awesome dad group. And, my goal with the show was to build an audience and to generate income, right. Because let's face it. If we don't love our job, what are we going to do? We got to make money doing something that we love. And I just think that the opportunities are so immense out there.

[00:04:46] Right. Especially for podcasters. Right? So what I found, which was really interesting Dilip in starting my first show was that I was speaking to all these awesome dads. I was meeting all these really cool people, professional [00:05:00] athletes, celebrities, presidential candidates. But what was interesting to me was nobody was paying me to teach them how to be an awesome dad.

[00:05:08] Right. I was selling some t-shirts here and there, but nothing, nothing substantial, what people were paying me for, was teaching them how to do the same, how to launch their own show, how to grow their own community. And so I shifted and the after hours entrepreneur was born and I started, kind of helping out various clients doing different things, custom jobs, custom solutions for custom people with custom problems, which by the way, is a very bad way to grow a business.

[00:05:36] But, you got to start somewhere. So through that time, through that process, To bring you kind of up to speed where I'm at today. I just am so passionate about launching shows and, in a world where people are obsessed with 15 second and five second clips, it's really hard to get any sort of substantial message across, which is one of the reasons why I think podcasting is so important [00:06:00] because the power to speak to an awesome audience like you have here for 30, 45 minutes.

[00:06:06] It's unprecedented. And so I developed tools to help grow, your business through podcasting, help you grow your audience through podcasting. So I host a group coaching platform, which is 25 bucks a month. And each month we cover, a particular topic. So for example, last month we discussed

[00:06:28] searchability and findability. And we went through a curriculum. We do live shows and we, just give resources there. And then I run a podcast production agency as well, where I launched shows for clients for businesses and then do production as well. So that kind of gets you caught up to speed.

[00:06:45] That's the short version of my story.

[00:06:47] Dilip: That's nice. The question that I had is that the first podcast that you started, you said it's the awesome dad. So did you rebrand it to the after hours entrepreneur or you just left that and then started this show as a completely new [00:07:00] podcast.

[00:07:00] Mark: Completely new podcast.

[00:07:02] And I think that there's a lot of value in rebranding a show if there's the same audience. Okay. But, the after hours entrepreneur hits on a really a different audience, than the awesome dad show. Right. So you can actually still listen to the awesome dad show. I parked it on anchor, right?

[00:07:20] Because it's free. I can park it on anchor. It could sit there forever. Right. It doesn't cost me anything. And what was cool Dilip is just last month. Professional NFL player reached out to me and said, Hey, mark, I love your podcast, the awesome dad show I'm launching a book called the present dad, I'd love to be on it.

[00:07:37] And so just because I had that podcast now, all of a sudden I made a connection with another awesome dad, who's launching a show who we've collaborated with. And that's, I think another thing that's just so powerful with podcasting is the power to, to collaborate, meet people like yourself, right?

[00:07:54] Dilip: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:07:56] And, mark, I had a question because I was going through your about page [00:08:00] on your website. And I found, you mentioned about a conversation that you had with your grandfather who was talking about, all of his achievements and then that kind of gave you, an d asked you a question saying, what is your, when you are a grandfather, what is the story that you're going to tell.

[00:08:16] So Today, I think you are almost 200 plus episodes in your current podcast. What I would like to know is were or,, have you been able to answer that question of yours as in, the story that you would want to tell your kids and your grandkids?

[00:08:32] Mark: Oh, wow. That's a, I mean, that's a big question Dilip and thanks for reading that in.

[00:08:37] I think it's really, having kids talking to my grandfather who's, who's now passed away, but at that time just really made a meaningful impact on. We start to think about legacy in, in what is my life going to look like? Right. Because, and I actually, I sat down with my wife the other day.

[00:08:53] We're having a little bit of disagreement because I'm an after hours entrepreneur, I put in a lot of work. I put in a lot of us. And she was feeling a little bit neglected. [00:09:00] It's another challenge. I don't know if we want to get into that, but we sat down and said, babe, I love you. And we needed to make a decision.

[00:09:07] Do we want to be average? Do we want to live an average life? And, I don't want to be average. And, and I think that by taking steps forward and opening doors every day. You just don't know what's going to be on the other side of that door. And to answer your question, I don't know exactly what my life will look like in five years or 10 years or 20 years.

[00:09:27] But I think that as long as we're taking that pursuit of improving ourselves and opening doors and connecting with people. It's it's almost inevitable Dilip as long as you're making good decisions in your, in your surrounding with people that are smarter, I think it was Kim Kardashian who said, if you're the smartest person in the room, you need to get to a different room.

[00:09:51] Right. I'm no Kardashian fan, but I think that's really good advice. And, that's kind of what my aim is just to try to surround myself with people and try to keep opening up [00:10:00] opportunities.

[00:10:01] Dilip: Okay, some nice insight because I think that's something that a lot of people struggle with deciding if this is something that they should continue, want to do.

[00:10:10] So on that piece, mark, and I think there is a lot of emphasis that you put on considering podcasting as a business or, something that can generate income for you, but do you think that podcasting can be a business? And if it is then what do you think are some of the essential things that people need to keep in mind in order to run it as a business?

[00:10:35] Mark: Well, yeah, I mean, podcasting can absolutely be a business. I mean, I run a production business, I charge a good amount of money to launch shows for client. I charge a good amount of money to produce shows for clients monthly. And again, I've got a mastermind program, so this is another. So I think at the end of the day, Dilip, this is really important.

[00:10:54] It's establishing what are the problems that people have and how can I solve that [00:11:00] problem? Right. And so, it's it's level one. Okay. People want to have a podcast. They're not sure how to start. I've been doing this for half a decade and I'll help them start it. Right. But the, the issue that I had, the problem that I had Dilip was there were many clients or potential clients that I would get on the phone with.

[00:11:21] And they'd be like, mark, I love you. You sound good. Your show sounds great. But I can't afford $2,500 to launch a show. I can't afford a thousand dollars a month for production. And, and so I just had all these clients, all these potential clients that were going in the opposite direction. So, one of the things that I've become really passionate about, especially for podcasters, and we can maybe talk more about this is, is developing community.

[00:11:45] So I set out and it took me a while to get there, but I set out and I've started building out a paid network for podcasters. So you can actually grow a meaningful show so that you can have clarity [00:12:00] and you can have the accountability and the curriculum and the people around you to help support you in that, in that journey.

[00:12:06] Let me ask you a question Dilip. Let me ask you if this, if this resonates with you at all, because this, like, I mean, it, it hits me like a punch in the chin. You can start a podcast for free, right? You can start a YouTube channel for free. And when I did what I did was I would watch all these different YouTube videos.

[00:12:23] I'd watch 10 different YouTube videos. And I'm like, oh, so I got to do this. And I got to do that. And I'm going to get this person's checklist. this person's checklist and you try to put it all together and what it's like, it's like trying to build a castle out of Legos and Duplo and mega blocks. And I got Lincoln logs and like the pieces don't fit together?

[00:12:41] And so that's really what I'm trying to build with the podcast savant community.

[00:12:45] Dilip: Okay, great. Yeah. So, if I'm to put it in a simpler term, you also mean to say that by building a community, it becomes easier for you to kind of run podcasting as a business.

[00:12:59] Mark: [00:13:00] It does in, podcast doesn't necessarily have to be your business, but the, the benefit of having a community, is it smooths out the edges, right? Because running a production agency. There can be some feast or, famine, there would be months where I have too many clients that I can't help them all.

[00:13:16] And there'd be months where I don't have any clients. So by having a community at it just kind of helps smooth out the edges. So there's always cashflow.

[00:13:24] Dilip: So, on this piece, I have a question which, a lot of people ask me as well. Now the easiest niche that people can get into when it comes to podcasting is the inspirational niche.

[00:13:35] Because, you, you don't necessarily need to be an expert. You can get an expert, you can talk to somebody, a business owner, a founder, somebody who's done well, you can bring them on the show, talk to them, get their insights and share that with your audience. But when it comes to considering these kinds of podcasts, as a business, or if somebody wants to turn this model into [00:14:00] a business, what kind of a model should I follow?

[00:14:02] So have you come across any such questions and, what would be a viable model or something that you would recommend for these kinds of podcasts?

[00:14:11] Mark: Yeah. Well, I think your people will come for the guests, they stay for the host, right? Guests that have come on my show where I get a ton of a ton of downloads, but then the next episode they don't stay.

[00:14:25] You know? So I think it's really important that whatever your show is about, you find some things that make you unique, whether that's your vernacular or the way that you do your intro, or, if you're doing video, it's the funny hats that you wear, just be yourself and be unique. And I think that that's something that's, that's really, really important?

[00:14:47] And I also think that people often make the misnomer of, well, if I could just get Gary Vaynerchuk on my show, well, then I would blow up. You know what I mean? It doesn't hurt. Right. You know, those, those [00:15:00] big guests. I mean, they're, like I said, they're on so many different shows, so people will stop by your show, but they have to be into you.

[00:15:07] You have to be bringing in something. So it's really important that you find what makes you unique and really try to connect with your audiences as best you can, which is not easy. Podcasting can really feel like a one-way. Great. The engagement's valuable.

[00:15:22] Dilip: So while we are talking about podcast guests.

[00:15:25] One question that I had, and I think this is, again, something that a lot of us podcasters try to do, because what we want to do is we want to bring in a big guest on the show and, we think that guest is going to share my podcast link with his, circle on social media platforms and, get a lot of people listening or tuning into my show.

[00:15:47] So we all want to get in big guests. But the problem is that most of those big guests don't even respond to your emails. How, first of all, what I would like to know is how you get Pat Flynn, John Lee [00:16:00] Dumas and Jasmine star. People like them to come on your show and talk to you.

[00:16:04] Mark: Well different strategies for each one of them.

[00:16:08] Funnily enough. So Pat Flynn, I was able to get on my show. Because I actually joined his community his, SPI pro community, which was cool. I mean, I I'm, I'm not in the community now, but I was in it for, a few months. I met a bunch of people I'm going to actually join it again cause, but by, by buying into

[00:16:27] the artist, by buying into the creator, they're much more likely to get on your show. I mean, I can almost guarantee it, if you're a paying member of their community, almost guaranteed, they're going to be willing to come. I was able to get Evan Carmichael like that. This is another interesting story.

[00:16:42] Evan Carmichael is huge on YouTube. He's got millions and millions of followers. And I noticed I was following him. I really wanted to get him on my show and I was following him and he was hosting a very small gaming show, a very [00:17:00] small live gaming show on YouTube, where he would just play league of legends for an hour

[00:17:03] at night. And he would live, stream it to YouTube and he would answer questions. On that channel he was live answering questions. There were maybe like six people that would follow him. And I would just show up day after day, week after week, and I would engage with him and eventually I was able to get him to agree to come on my podcast.

[00:17:22] Hey, so sometimes you've got to find ways to get through the noise, ways to get through the noise.

[00:17:30] Dilip: Good, points. So now, a second question to that, something that I would like to know, like what I said, we all want, big stars to come because we think that they are going to promote us.

[00:17:41] And we are going to get a bunch of new listeners who are going to join into the show. Every time, it happens a lot of people and it's fine because we can understand that they are busy. They have a ton of other things. They might not share your show, but that strategy of bringing guests to [00:18:00] only make them share, your podcast, I don't think has really worked well with a lot of people, but then is there a different kind of strategy that you would recommend or, it is just so that we can announce that we have some big stars on the show.

[00:18:13] What, what is your strategy of bringing big names onto a podcast? What do you recommend?

[00:18:21] Mark: Well, big guests are great, right? The more big guests you have, the more credibility it brings you. And one big guest leads to more big guests, right? So there's, there's definitely a lot of value. I think part of the challenge though, Dilip is there's so many people that are, that are following that strategy.

[00:18:36] And there's so many guests, big guests that are on so many podcasts. I think it becomes more difficult to stand out now in 2022 than it was in 2015, for example. I think that the best people to have on your show are a people that you're legitimately curious about. People that you think can really help you and help your [00:19:00] audience.

[00:19:00] The, the most popular download of my show was from a fellow podcaster named Adam Adams, the most popular. Sure. And, most people don't know who Adam Adams is. They'll know David Meltzer is, or, Pat Flynn on, the big names. They don't know who Adam Adams is, but still because he was so interesting and because it really resonated with my audience and we got shared out and so on and so forth. That episode, really, that episode really hit.

[00:19:29] So I think bringing people that are legitimately interested in. And you can actually provide valuable information is far better than bringing in a huge name. Again, bringing in a big name, doesn't certainly doesn't hurt, but, those are the people that also Dilip to your point are much more willing to share out episodes.

[00:19:49] I mean, there's different ways, some of my bigger guests have shared out shows. But people that you actually connect with are much more likely to, I find, especially by the way, if [00:20:00] you don't overload that guest with too much, too much info. I've definitely been guilty of that in the past.

[00:20:07] Now I find it's best just to maybe share one link, maybe one promotional clip and that's it, when you start sharing, six different links with 10 different images, people are just like, ah, I don't have. being thoughtful, finding your best clip and your best link I find is, is a much better way to, to get that share.

[00:20:25] Dilip: Right? Yeah. So, another question that I had there, something that we do a lot of times, irrespective of, it being a big star or somebody, who actually can provide value. What happens is, the usual tendency is to just drop them a note, asking them to share it with people, but that, that strategy hasn't really worked well.

[00:20:46] And, to take that effort to go and share until, and unless somebody is genuinely interested in sharing is a little difficult. So is there something that you would recommend that we follow. the guests who are coming on the show goes [00:21:00] ahead and shares that episode.

[00:21:01] Mark: You got to make it as easy as possible.

[00:21:04] And I think, in, in the, on the internet in general, whether it's procuring clients or, getting people to share, getting people to get on your, to come on your show, you did a great job of onboarding by the way, it was very, very easy. It's about creating a frictionless experience, right? We want the, everything needs to be easy?

[00:21:22] I'm always looking at ways to, how can I reduce the amount of texts? How can I reduce the amount of work? How can I make this easier? I think, frankly, probably the best way to get shares is to just send out a quick email to your guests the morning, the episode goes live real short

[00:21:37] like, Hey episode goes live today. I'm going to tag you on social media, please reshare. I mean, okay. Yeah, you gotta be a sadist, not to reshare someone who, who tags you on an Instagram story. I mean, it's so easy, you tag, if you tag someone on Instagram story, like it takes literally three seconds to share it out?

[00:21:57] Same thing with like a Twitter, Twitter post, but if you [00:22:00] say, Hey, here's 10 clips choose the best one and I have to go to your drive and I have to download it. Then I have to go into Instagram and I have to create a fresh reel, and it doesn't really look perfect on my grid. You kind of see what I'm getting at here.

[00:22:13] You're creating more. Got to remove the friction.

[00:22:17] Dilip: Right. Great points. Right. Okay. So coming back to one aspect that you mentioned at the beginning of the show, Mark and, I think this is something that a lot of us struggle with and I've come across a lot of people who get started with podcasting so enthusiastically only to find that there is so much of effort involved in it and, it is eating into their me time, their family time, and then eventually.

[00:22:41] Quitting it in spite of the fact that that podcast was really good, really informative. And you touched upon this piece in the beginning. So, when we, when we have to run something like a podcasting, along with all of the other things that we have to do, manage life. There is bound to be some kind of [00:23:00] frustration, some kind of a problem at home with, with our family members.

[00:23:04] So what is your recommendation in terms of managing these kinds of issues and how can you ensure that it doesn't impact, your overall report customs?

[00:23:15] Mark: Oh, wow. So that's, that's a big question right there. Dilip, a big question. And the answer is the answer is that's. Yeah, it's a, it's a complicated question.

[00:23:24] It is, so one of the challenges with podcasting and with, with entrepreneurship, building a business, building something, creating something from nothing. It's tough, man. It's really, really tough. And it's, it can be really lonely. I've spent so many hours in dark dank rooms editing in very dim lighting.

[00:23:45] And, I've definitely questioned myself. I think that being part of some sort of community or network or group that has your back and is, is interested in seeing you succeed. I think. It's it's, it's a [00:24:00] huge, huge deal. So that, that's one thing, being a part of a real community, and I'm not just talking about a Facebook group where people do like follow for follow stuff and, but the being part of a community that it's actually, excited when you

[00:24:13] have a win or help pick you up when you're down or when you have a problem. You're not sure about how to fix, they can fix it. I think that that's big. I also think that for me personally, if there's a night where I'm just, I'm like, ah, that I, I didn't get that client or this person left me a bad review or whatever, and you start to second guess yourself.

[00:24:34] I just try to get a good night's sleep. I'm all about hustling and exercising and taking care of my body. But, your, your, your brain will do funny things to you when it's tired, it'll start to tell you stuff like you're not good enough, or what do you think? And, or your mom and dad don't believe in you, but, just a good night's sleep and waking up early, like rested like, all right, let's get after it.

[00:24:57] let's do this thing. I [00:25:00] find that that helps a lot. And then other times I think it is important to reflect on what, what am I doing? What is my goal here? And I'll give you a perfect example, just, just earlier this, this evening. So I've been hosting rooms on clubhouse for a little over a year.

[00:25:16] Are you familiar with clubhouse social audio app? Yep. So hosting rooms weekly or twice a week for about a year and a half. And oh, my dude, like for the first six months that we were hosting these rooms, six to eight months, it was like gas on a fire. Leads, clients networking. It was unreal. It was just, it was, it was so good.

[00:25:40] And then week nine or, month nine month 10 started to, things started slowing down. Not as many people in the rooms. People stopped logging in. Not as much crossover traffic, to Instagram and so on and so forth. And, we stuck with it, me and me and, I had a co-host, we, [00:26:00] we, we were working it out and we just met a few minutes ago and, we were kind of talking about it and, she was a little disgruntled and, not real happy with the way the rooms were going in, the room was going and, so we had a long talk like two hours.

[00:26:15] we assess like where, what do we actually want to accomplish? And then are the actions we're taking are they actually sending us on that direction? We both agreed. I don't think it is. I don't think that there's a reason that we continue to do this weekly room. It's not leading to new leads, not leading to new clients.

[00:26:34] We're not building a larger community. It's just the same, several people that keep coming. So, anyway, long story short, it's really important that we have patience and persistence, but we also need to know when to pivot and, and, and if you're not part of the community, if you're not surrounding yourself with the right people, That is I think a really difficult thing to identify.

[00:26:56] Dilip: I think that that community helps, you in a [00:27:00] lot of decision-making as well. Isn't it? Yeah.

[00:27:02] Mark: Well, I mean, you think about it too. most of the people that I know in my quote unquote, real life, which I mean, we could have a whole discussion about real life versus virtual life. But, most people I know in my real life, they could care less about podcasting.

[00:27:15] They could care less about NFTs. They don't care about Instagram follower. They don't care. They're, they want to live they are living average, not to insult my friends, but a lot of people want to live average lives doing the average thing that they've always done. So the, the problem is when you're.

[00:27:34] When you're letting those noises, those sounds go into your ears. It's, it's, you're letting average ideas in, right? So that's why I think surrounding yourself with the right people is just, it is, it is such a, it is so, so important, whatever business you're trying to build. Finding ways to network with more people, getting more exposure, meeting up, teaming up with someone at the [00:28:00] local University.

[00:28:01] And, and that's one of the things that's really powerful about podcasting as well, Dilip. Cause if you said, Hey mark, let's I want to hop on a call and talk to you for a few minutes. I'd probably say no, but that's not what you did. You said, Hey mark. I loved hearing you. I've listened to a few of your episodes.

[00:28:15] Let me bring you on my podcast. Let's do it. It's, it's, it's such an great icebreaker and people do not think about it enough. Like you can develop relationships with, so, you can just develop some amazing relationships. Just by having a podcast, it just opens doors.

[00:28:33] Dilip: I think that's, that's a different perspective of looking at it which a lot of times when people will get started with podcasting, they don't look at it that way.

[00:28:43] So coming to, core podcasting and, using your podcast and, like what I said, a lot of times we get started with podcasting just because, there are a lot of people who tell me that I liked. so I just thought I'd get started with my podcast. And it's only after, [00:29:00] 10 or 15 episodes where they feel that, oh, I'm putting in so much of time into this.

[00:29:05] So how do I make the most of it? How can I make some money? Because everybody's talking about making money as well. And it's, then that you start thinking about, is there a way I'll be able to make money with it? Is, is it, can this be monetized? So that's the normal thought process for most people getting starting with podcasting and a lot of people that I meet, that is how they, they start thinking about monetizing.

[00:29:27] You have almost as in more than I think 204 - 205 episodes on your current show, and your previous show would also have had some episodes there, but I would like to know what, what point did you start thinking about making podcasting a source of income or monetizing your podcast. Did you do it at the beginning itself or was it after, a specific number of episodes that you started thinking about it?

[00:29:54] Mark: Well, you got to start with the end in mind for sure. And in, I certainly did as well. I, [00:30:00] I launched the awesome dad show with hopes that it would be, I'd be having sponsors and I'd be traveling the world and that'd be at the super bowl and I'd be interviewing all these people, it didn't play out.

[00:30:11] I remember watching a video and this guy said, I have six podcasts and I was like, that's never going to BB. That's crazy. I, this is the one, this is the podcast. Right. So, you definitely want to start with the end in mind. But like I said, it's a journey. It's about opening doors.

[00:30:27] When I launched that show, I realized that I had a lot to learn. A lot to. And so I resolved that I was going to release 52 episodes. I was just going to release an episode once a week for a year. And even if not one person listened, I would still consider it a win because that was my goal. I wanted to learn.

[00:30:48] I wanted to understand it because I still believe that podcasting is one of the most powerful ways to develop relationships and, and to build real attention with people. But, [00:31:00] I think that the thing that most people in, in, I might take this conversation slightly different route. In which, by the way people did listen to the podcast, it's just that people were not as interested in hearing about fatherhood stories.

[00:31:13] They were more interested in, how can I grow a business? How can I grow my podcast? Right. But I digress a bit, I think that over the last 200 episodes, what I've, 300 episodes or, so what I've recognized is that, to monetize a podcast, the podcast as of 2022 is not so much, is like a lead magnet of sorts.

[00:31:39] I think that people think that off I'll make a podcast. People will listen and then they'll tell their friends and I'll get sponsors. That's not really the way it plays out. I think that the way to monetizing a podcast now is to develop a podcast that serves, like really serves a specific audience. I'll give you an example.

[00:31:59] [00:32:00] I've I've been getting really into NFTs recently and actually launched a podcast about it. I know how three, three active podcasts. Oh so yeah. So I'm been into NFTs. And I've been really interested in this project that Gary Vaynerchuk is working on, a book games. Right. And I don't, I don't have enough time to sit in discord channels and read and all that.

[00:32:20] So I found a podcast that just kind of summarizes what's happened over the last, over the last several days. I can listen to it for 10 minutes. I'm going to be listening to that podcast every day, because I'm interested in the topic and it's solves a problem? So I think, I think the way to monetize a podcast is to, is to, is to find a niche and really serve that niche with something that's, that's valuable.

[00:32:45] And it's not always obvious and it might not always be your first podcast, but the sooner. we can get clarity the sooner you can get clarity on what that is the better. I mean, I could, I could just go on and on about this, but I'm not going to, because I appreciate your insights [00:33:00] as well.

[00:33:02] Dilip: The right. It's important. Like what he said, to get started with looking at what is it that you want to do with your podcast at the beginning itself, rather than starting thinking about it in the middle. Now another question that I had mark, and I think this is something that I've seen a lot of podcasters doing, but, the amount of effort that goes into it is a lot, but I'm not really sure about how much of a return that is.

[00:33:25] That is no creating videos, video podcasts. And I've seen you using some of these clips of those conversations very nicely in your Instagram profile. But what most people do is they will just do a video or a conversation with somebody and then post that entire conversation on YouTube, on Instagram or wherever possible.

[00:33:46] But do you think that, video in podcasting is something that can help in any way as in help your podcast in anyway? And what, what is your suggestion about. Putting in all of [00:34:00] that effort to get those videos done.

[00:34:02] Mark: So video is definitely not a necessity. It is not a necessity. Okay. I probably overdo it quite frankly, but I also have a team of five people helping with my production.

[00:34:13] Right. But video is not, is not necessary. What is necessary and here's the plan is you need to have a place where people can listen to your long form content. Right. It doesn't have to be multiple cause, be one places where people can absorb and listen to your long form content. Okay. so they can really get to know you.

[00:34:35] They can go deep, like I said earlier, you can't get a lot of value. You can't go deep on a 15 second clip. This is why Joe Rogan's podcast is so big because people want to go deep into topics. They, they don't, they want to go vertical, not horizontal. Right? So you have one place where your long form content lives, that could be YouTube.

[00:34:52] That could be, a podcast, right? And then you have to have one place where you're, where you have short form engagement. [00:35:00] That's the place where you want to try to drive engagement, develop relationships. You're DM-ing, you're liking, you're commenting and that could be Instagram. That could be Twitter. That could be LinkedIn.

[00:35:11] It could be Tik-Tok depending on where you're at. So you find a place where you have your long form and your short form. And again, depending on your goals, like you said, you want to start with the end in mind and depending on your goals, depending on your audience, you would, you would want to select your short form.

[00:35:28] you're short your place for your short form content to live.

[00:35:31] Dilip: And then we can use as an, a fatality, we are doing videos and we can use those videos, because podcasting, most people prefer hosting that on some of these podcast hosting platforms. So we can use those video clips, like, promoting it on Instagram and engaging with

[00:35:46] people right.

[00:35:47] Mark: A hundred percent, a hundred percent. And you, when you go to my my profile Mark Savant Media you'll see that we do that, but I'm kind of been rethinking that strategy Dilip, I've been doing that for the [00:36:00] past several years and, the formatting has always evolved, but I've just been noticing that like Instagram specifically is just so saturated with that style of talking head video.

[00:36:12] Dilip: And I think people are just numb to it. They're bored of it. It's not interesting anymore. I think that, so, so here's one thing that's really important. If you are going to be posting clips like that, right. A you want to try to format them as a reel. I'm talking Instagram specifically now. Right. But this, this applies kind of across the board, but you want to, you want to format them as a real, and you also want to make sure that even if someone isn't listening, they can, they can see what the clip is about.

[00:36:43] So you know what the hook is about. So for example, maybe your episode is about, how to make a really great intro, right? And if that's what the real is about, you'll have in the middle of the screen in bold letters how to make a dope intro or an intro [00:37:00] people can't miss. Right. That I think is really important so that, even if people either just fall on your bio, they see, okay, this is what this video is about.

[00:37:09] I'll click it. Or if somebody is scrolling through their feed, they see those big words they read and they're like, okay, I'm interested. I'll I'll watch in, in this. You won't see. That has been is, is highly executed on my page now. We're we're adapting, by the time this goes live, it'll probably look more like that because me and my team have been really looking. Really looking at that, I think that's important.

[00:37:32] Great point. Yeah. And with all of that emphasis on that Reel, smaller snippets, I think really make sense. Yeah.

[00:37:40] Mark: And I think that the, like the behind the scenes types of clips do really well, just like a picture of you, at your desk or you with your, with your wife at a, at a unique place or with your kids, I think that behind the scenes type of stuff, that is, it can be very engaging.

[00:37:56] Dilip: Great. So some wonderful insights, Mark. So before I let you go, now [00:38:00] I have a question that I usually ask all my guests. So if you are to start podcast, absolutely new, right now? And, before you were getting started if you want to tell yourself what are the two things, two most important things that you need to keep in mind before getting started?

[00:38:22] What will those two things be?

[00:38:24] Mark: Th there there's a number of things, but the first thing I would ask is why, what is the goal of this podcast? Why am I doing it? Am I doing it because I want more clients? Is it because of, I want to build my network. Is it because I want to support my community? Is it because I want to learn, like, what is your, why?

[00:38:42] Cause if you're not clear on why you even want a podcast, it, it it's kind of doomed, right. So why do I want a podcast? Then you need to ask yourself, well, what will the podcast be about? Right. Who am I going to speak to? So I think, I think those are the most, most important questions. [00:39:00] Why there's, there's a few more in January, me and my group, and, I'll offer this to all of your, all of your listeners as well.

[00:39:07] If you, if you email me contact at mark savant media.com. Shoot me an email contact at marksavantmedia .com password dilip, use keyword Dilip so I'll know it's from, from, from, from your show. But I have what's called what I like to call a brand identity guide. It's about a five page identity guide that breaks down, like all the questions you need to ask yourself before you get started.

[00:39:34] Everything, from the why's to the, what, who I'm gonna be speaking to. Is this an interview show? Is it a solo show? What's the name? What's the vision. What's the mission. Who am I speaking to? Why do they care? it's, it's very detailed. People get a little bit overwhelmed when they see it for the first time.

[00:39:51] I think that, I think planning is important, but we don't want to have perfection, perfection paralysis or paralysis by analysis. Right. Sometimes you just [00:40:00] gotta go and you just got to get started because above all a successful podcast is one that's still in production.

[00:40:07] Dilip: That's that's a really good quote.

[00:40:09] Yeah. Successful podcast is something that is still in production. Absolutely agree with that. And you said they can drop an email to contact@marksavantmedia.com or with the subject line is Dilip

[00:40:21] Mark: yup. Subject line Dilip. And I'd be happy to share that brand identity guide with you. It's it's it's normally part of my paid community to get access to.

[00:40:32] But I, I be, I'd be happy to send it to you, to you for free. Now, if you want the resources to make sure you're filling it out to the best of its ability, then you've got to join my community, which is, 25 bucks a month. Nothing crazy. But yeah, I I'd be, I would definitely be happy to share it with you and your audience.

[00:40:47] I think it's a really valuable tool for, for kind of. Getting clarity and scheduling out your roadmap.

[00:40:56] Dilip: Yeah. Now that that would be nice. That will be a very handy tool [00:41:00] for most people who wants to get started with their podcasts.

[00:41:02] Mark: I still, I just, by the way, I just launched a new show called NFTs made simple.

[00:41:07] Did I, I do this for every show that I launched for every client I launched. It's clarity is, is everything it's so important. Yeah.

[00:41:16] Dilip: And, I would definitely want to tune into that show because, NFTs are something that is very new for me, I've been reading about web three NFTs and, all of these things in the last two, three weeks, and I would want to learn a little more about it.

[00:41:31] So I would suddenly be tuning into that show and that, that the details of that show is there in your profile also. Is it?.

[00:41:37] Mark: It's you don't, I don't, I'm going to add it to my Instagram. It's called NFTs made simple. Can't miss it. NFTs made simple but yeah, it's, it's very fresh. We just, me and my coach just launched it about two weeks ago.

[00:41:51] So.

[00:41:53] Dilip: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, sure. I will Certainly tune in. So thanks a lot for taking the time out, mark [00:42:00] and talking to me for the last 40, 45 minutes and sharing all of those insights. So it was a wonderful experience talking to you and all of the knowledge that you shared. Thanks for joining me. And thanks for coming

[00:42:11] on the show.

[00:42:12] Mark: Dilip it's my pleasure. Just honored to share some time with you in the podcasting university here today.

[00:42:17] Dilip: Thanks. Hopefully catch up with you sometime later again, when podcasting has evolved, then, we'll have a lot, many other things to talk about. So thanks a lot and you have a good rest of the day.

[00:42:28] See you then.

[00:42:31] Mark: You too reach out anytime, brother,

[00:42:32] Dilip: I hope you enjoyed this conversation with mark. If you're did, then don't forget to visit the podcasting university.com for the show notes, the printable transcript, and the free gift that mark promise to all of the listeners of the podcasting university.

[00:42:51] Don't forget to subscribe to the show in order to stay updated with the latest episodes. Whatever platform you're listening to. It can be apple podcast, [00:43:00] Google podcast, Stitcher radio, tune-in, JioSaavn, Spotify, Gaana, or Amazon prime music. You can subscribe to the show in there so that you don't miss out on any of these episodes.

[00:43:13] Visit the podcasting university.com, for all the show notes, don't forget to join my free four day ecourse on the absolute basics of podcasting. If you are planning to get started with your podcast, that is all that I have for this episode. I'll be back again the next week with another interesting conversation and some podcasting tips until then keep listening to the podcasting university.

[00:43:37] You all have. a wonderful rest of the week.[00:44:00]