TPU45 – Understanding SEO for Podcasting and Other Promotional methods with Derek from Social Bamboo

Episode-45

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[00:00:00] Derek: .. And if you just assume that, that, like, anytime you have thoughts, like what if it's to saturate. Well, it won't ever be because the world is full of quitters and people who don't start things ever so great. Like I'll just start right now. And I won. Like, you can just so many people don't ever start that.

[00:00:26] It just makes it such an opportunity that if you don't get stuck at that phase like you're already ahead of like 90% of people, like 90% of people who want to start a podcast, don't do it at least at least 90%.

[00:00:43] Dilip: Welcome to the podcasting university, looking for help on starting your own podcast. Then this is the place to be.

[00:00:50] We will help you with everything from selecting your topic to promoting and monetizing your podcast in the simplest language possible. [00:01:00] Listen to other podcasters who've been through the grind and learn from them as we interview them every week, you can find more details on the podcasting university.com.

[00:01:18] Hello, and welcome to episode 45 of the podcasting university. This is Dilip your host and on today's episode, we have a guest, a guest who is a direct sales man turned online marketer, who now runs the number one social media marketing podcast for businesses for three straight years now. He's an Instagram expert and a podcaster who has a completely different approach to building your list

[00:01:47] and your audience using giveaways. And I'll tell you, I sincerely love that approach of his. His podcast has more than 200 episodes. He crossed 200 episodes, a couple of weeks back, and it has more than [00:02:00] 200 reviews on apple podcasts alone. Thanks to his approach of gathering reviews, which he discusses with us on the show today. Let us, welcome Derek Videll from social bamboo podcast to the podcasting university.

[00:02:17] Hi Derek. Good morning and welcome to the podcasting university.

[00:02:21] Derek: Hey, man, I'm super excited to be here. I don't get to talk about podcasts in too often.

[00:02:25] Dilip: This is all going to be about podcasting and podcasting itself. So there is a lot that we are going to talk about podcasting. So I'll give you a lot of opportunity to talk about your thoughts and your strategies about podcasting.

[00:02:38] Derek: Awesome. Whatever questions you've got, I'm ready for it.

[00:02:41] Dilip: Right. So, before we get started, Derek, I've listened to a lot of your conversations earlier, but for the sake of the audience, what I would like you to do is just walk us through who Derek is, what you've been doing, how you got into podcasting and what is social bamboo podcast all about..

[00:02:58] Derek: Yeah. So it [00:03:00] started three years ago, now, three years in one month. So it was January of 2018. And at that time it was actually called Instagram marketing secrets. But eventually once I stuck with it long enough, I realized I probably shouldn't have a company named after Instagram. I switched it at that time.

[00:03:17] We can get into that. Actually, if you'd like to, that was actually had a lot of issues with changing name there looking back at it. But yeah, before that I had some experience in e-commerce and also direct sales. So originally I actually started my entrepreneur career. Commission-based sales, driving all around selling products.

[00:03:38] And I did that for over seven years and that got me the sales and, really marketing experience. It all translates into the same psychology. So that got me my foundation and then e-commerce, and then the podcast came later. But social bamboo it's named social bamboo just because bamboo is one of the fastest and most sustainable growing plants out there.

[00:03:59] And [00:04:00] that's how I like to define the strategies that I talk about. Especially the ones that I really put the most focus in are ones that are great for businesses to grow very quickly on all their social media platforms that they're looking to grow on, but also in a way that is sustainable and not getting.

[00:04:18] fake followers and such like that. So that's where the name social bamboo came from. And, yeah at this time I come out with two episodes a week and I am putting out 1 98 today. So I'm just about on my episode, 200. And I'm very excited for that because I'm going to be doing a lot of special things.

[00:04:37] Dilip: Right. So I, I get into that , that those two episodes in a week and a little while, but first, what I would want to know is that you just mentioned about an issue with using Instagram, that brand name on the name of the podcasting. What exactly. Wasn't sure that he faced.

[00:04:52] Derek: Yeah. So the podcast was called Instagram marketing secrets and someone had made me a logo for it. That was very similar to Instagram's logo. [00:05:00] And it was essentially, it looked like the same thing, but instead of like the square shape, it was a circle and it was like green. And one time I set my profile picture to just that logo, like fully zoomed in on just that Instagram

[00:05:16] looking logo. And right once I clicked, done and saved it, I got an automated block from Instagram. So it wasn't like a person who manually reviewed this. It was just an automated block. And it said impersonating another account. And, I can only imagine that it was impersonating Instagram themselves, because I was like using essentially like if their, their system would detect that it was like basically the Instagram logo, but just a different color.

[00:05:46] It is what I'm thinking. Right? Like, so. This is all the info that I have, but it's the only thing that also makes sense. So my account was a little over 10 K at that time, and I got that one banned and it w [00:06:00] it definitely, was a setback, but I was like, all right, this is also my opportunity to keep putting out podcasts, start a new Instagram and just show people that you don't give up.

[00:06:10] So that's what I did. But then a month later, I finally got it back. But during that time, it was just kind of a scare to me. Yeah, I might have some issues with using an Instagram name. I might've never run into it, I guess I just don't understand it well enough, but because my podcast was all, it was just called Instagram marketing secrets.

[00:06:32] And I also wanted to kind of branch out over time. As I could see that Instagram's organic reach was really going down. Cause when I started in 2018, Instagram's organic reach was so much higher. And now in 2022, it's like, there's, there's so many other things or actually, excuse me, it was 2019 January that I started it.

[00:06:49] But even then the, the reach was so much higher and now you just have to do, so many other things to be able to compete, especially grow on other platforms that I [00:07:00] wanted to expand out to social media marketing in general, rather than an Instagram marketing specific topics. So I kind of used that account ban

[00:07:09] as like a means of, well, if you're gonna ever rebrand, now's the time? Cause I'm making a new Instagram account now. And I changed the podcast. I got off anchor at that time and switched to Buzzsprout and I changed. I hired people for my content. I just did a bunch. I kind of just used that opportunity as like.

[00:07:28] Alright, it's rebranding time. And luckily I did get the account back and then I just, rebranded that one once I got it back.

[00:07:35] Dilip: Okay. And I think you put in a lot of effort into, I, as in naming your podcast, social bamboo, because of concept that you just said about bamboo, that being something that is sustainable long-term.

[00:07:47] So there is a lot of effort that you might have put into finding that name for the podcast, right?.

[00:07:53] Derek: It did take a, I think once I found it, it was hard for me to find anything else that I liked more, [00:08:00] even though like, after a couple months I was like, I don't even know how much I like it, but now I'm like, I'm all about it.

[00:08:05] I'm cool with it. But I think. Naming businesses is one of those things that I actually don't spend as much, like too much time on. I, a lot of times I start the businesses before I can come up with the second name. So I think social bamboo didn't take me that long to come up with actually what?

[00:08:20] Cause I was like, well, it's all about fast stainable strategies. And then it kind of just hit me. That was a good link there,

[00:08:27] Dilip: you, you said, and I noticed that you were publishing two episodes every week, one on a Tuesday and the other one on a Thursday. So two episodes

[00:08:35] Derek: on Monday, Thursday, actually, sometimes I'm late

[00:08:37] though.

[00:08:37] Dilip: Oh, okay. So Monday, Thursday, and your episodes are almost about 20 minutes long. So you not turning out two episodes in a week and doing all of the promotional activities. So how much, and what, what's that system, like, how do you manage to produce these two episodes? How do you plan your content? And the promotional strategies.

[00:08:58] So how does that work? [00:09:00]

[00:09:00] Derek: Great question. And I will say that my way of doing it is very unique. I very rarely do I talk to other podcasters to do it the way I do. Like a lot of times when I get on interviews, they're like, okay, perfect. Your interview will come out in three months. And when I interview someone, I'm like, all right, it's coming out tomorrow.

[00:09:18] Like, I kind of make all of my podcasts are made the day before. A lot of times the night before, part of that reason is because I have ADHD and it's hard for me to focus until it gets, comes down to the wire. And I just would prefer to do it like that. But I'm also a single dude without kids. So there's my lifestyle that allows for me to be a little bit more flexible.

[00:09:39] So I'll let like my honest answer, but I'll also let you know of how most people do it. Really everyone's perfect answer of how you should create content is going to be slightly different than others, but it's about understanding yourself and then also hearing some other people's perspectives of how they do it, and then kind of compiling it together to make [00:10:00] what works for you and, keep experimenting, but how mine works in.

[00:10:05] As I go about life. I come up with podcast ideas all the time, so I just instantly throw them on my phone. This the same with Instagram content, YouTube, any kind of content. Usually just when I'm working on business all day and working on my own business and then thinking about what am I doing? It always makes me come up with content.

[00:10:26] And the reason why I think my brain works like that is this fundamental concept. I learn with intent to teach. So whenever I'm learning anything. I'm assuming that the chances that I will have to teach it to someone someday are very, very high with the position that I'm in being a podcaster and an online business coach, the chances I'm going to have to teach this to someone someday it's very, very high.

[00:10:52] So when I'm going through it, I'm paying very close attention so that I can learn it very quickly. And also thinking, [00:11:00] how would I systematize this? How could I turn this into like an aid to Z? Way of teaching this very, very structured so that someone who, wasn't the best at marketing could even learn to apply this right away.

[00:11:12] And when I'm going about life and just thinking like that, it makes me come up with podcast episodes a lot. Also, if I run into someone that I might want to interview them, usually I just send them. A message instantly right there on the spot and just try to get an interview scheduled. So I do interviews here and there, but I do mostly solo episodes and a lot of them are just like on my phone right now.

[00:11:32] I probably have about 12 to 15 episodes backed up that I want to record. And then once it comes down to, time to record, I record whichever one, I'd be most passionate to record on. Also what might be like tactical for me to do. So for instance the episode I'm going to come out with today, it's been a

[00:11:51] couple of weeks since I've come out with an episode that has social media in the title. And in order for me to maintain my rankings as a social media [00:12:00] podcasts, it's good for me to come out with an episode with social media in the title pretty frequently, honestly. So today I'm like, all right, we need a social media episode and I'm just like social media sales tactics, social media

[00:12:12] sales strategy. Why social media sales isn't working for you. I'm just going through those in my mind. And I'm like, which one could I actually do? I actually have some material on right now. And I just am a very avid note taker on my phone, not just with like podcast episode ideas, but also like here's some, like anytime I come up with an idea of how to get more story engagement or why my story ended.

[00:12:37] Might be down, it's getting logged instantly. Right? So like, I'm just very meticulous about anything that comes into my mind. That could be good content. I just have it very organized, all my notes section on my phone. I instantly put it down so that when it's time to record, I'm ready for it. As far as like YouTube and Instagram comes into it, it mostly all starts from the [00:13:00] podcast.

[00:13:00] And then I say, is this an a podcast episode that I should also film. And if the answer is yes, I'm like this could definitely work well on YouTube. There's a lot of search volume around this topic, and I think the video would really help out the content. Then basically the podcast that week, I'm just going to put more effort into it because the, when you're creating content for YouTube, it has to be faster paced and more well thought out like podcasts,

[00:13:29] you can be a little bit more on, off the cuff and go, go off on tangents and go longer. But on YouTube, it's going to be a little bit more quick pace and obviously I'm filming it. And then I'm just doing a bunch of bunch of jump cuts and such. So when YouTube comes in, it's more me saying is this podcast one that I could turn on the camera and turn this into a good video at the same time.

[00:13:53] And that's where my YouTube strategy comes in. And whenever I interview. I am always clipping that interview into [00:14:00] multiple different YouTube videos, which is the best way to do interviews because then every single question you ask them, you can turn into a separate YouTube video around that question.

[00:14:10] And I mean, if you get like five. YouTube video clips from like every interview you, you do. You're probably going to get one or two of them to always do okay for you. So that's part of my content strategy and then Instagram for that reels is such a big part of my strategy right now. And whenever I'm just using Instagram as a user, I'm just saving any audio I would ever want to do.

[00:14:36] And if my inspiration. Fillmore real comes around. Cause I'm like, yeah, what? I'm, I've got a lot of energy right now. The lighting's good at, I'll just film it because I do work full-time from home. So there's a lot of my strategy that is only applicable because I'm a, full-time stay at home entrepreneur.

[00:14:55] Like when I was transitioning out and I was like still doing my traveling sales job. I think it would be a little [00:15:00] bit harder. To be so loose with my schedule. But I just know that. Even if I don't plan it, I'm going to post at least three times a week on Instagram. And if I don't like, it's fine.

[00:15:12] Like I don't, if I don't want to post on Instagram for a week, I just don't do it. I don't really care about forcing out a post just to get it out. I post on Instagram when I got something to say, but I just know that I usually have something to say. And since I just do reels and then I screenshot Twitter quotes, it's very easy for me to just crank out content on the

[00:15:33] spot.

[00:15:34] Dilip: Yeah. Right. And that's, that's a very unique strategy. And to be very Frank, this is for the first time that I'm hearing from someone. But I think in spite of the fact that you are, churning out content pretty fast and, you, you, you're not planning it for a longterm, but still, I think you have a very structured approach

[00:15:50] which is probably something that is helping you to churn out content at this space, right?

[00:15:55] Derek: Absolutely. Yeah. Like I said before, I was like, no one does this by the way. But [00:16:00] someone like with someone who would have ADHD and being like a similar position in life could, I could see doing this. Like if I had kids and I'd have to be a lot more like, all right, I'm batch recording, podcasts episodes, ?

[00:16:11] Cause like today I might record my podcasts. Right after this one, if I'm feeling it. But sometimes I might record at like 8:30 PM at night, just because I'm like, I dunno. It's just like, that's when the inspiration, it always gets out. Like I'm I always get it out is the thing. So that's why it works. But yeah, it's, it's not one most, most people would do, even though it is pretty structured

[00:16:37] too, like you said.

[00:16:38] Dilip: Yeah. So coming to that point where you mentioned using social media in the title, I think that is from an SEO perspective that you were talking about. Right.

[00:16:47] Derek: What do you mean from an SEO perspective?

[00:16:49] Dilip: So you said, to, to record an episode with social media in the title.

[00:16:53] In order for it to make relevant to whatever you're doing, right?

[00:16:56] Derek: Yes. Yes.

[00:16:57] Dilip: So, so Derek, a quick question on that. [00:17:00] Now I've watched, one of your videos ,where you were talking about SEO for podcasts. And when I look at it, if I, if I am to compare podcast audio with that of maybe blogging, journaling, Now search engine optimization for text is something that we know text can rank on search engines, but how does an audio benefit from SEO and what's, what's your strategy for podcasting when it comes to search engine optimization?

[00:17:27] Derek: Are you also asking about how much does audio quality affect search engine optimization?

[00:17:33] Dilip: No. Basically, how do you optimize? As in, when it comes to search engine optimization, what do you do when it comes to podcasting? Because it's just audio, right? There is nothing that a search engine, a bot can pick in order to identify what the topic is all about and then rank it on

[00:17:50] search

[00:17:50] engines.

[00:17:51] Derek: Got you. That that's what you were referencing there. I was like, oh, are you talking about the audio quality? How much that matters, but I understand exactly what you're saying. So yeah, with [00:18:00] podcasting, the. Way to look at SEO is to know that people are usually more likely to search for a title of a show rather than a specific episode.

[00:18:11] So when someone goes on YouTube, they're very likely to type in like how to build a deck, but on podcasting, they'd be more like. construction or they'd be like DIY home stuff or like home projects and they would more type in, better homes and garden. They'd be more looking for the title of a show and then they subscribed to it and then they just listen to.

[00:18:33] Whatever that show has to talk about on, on YouTube, obviously they subscribe, but it's still so search-based that when someone is doing a search, they're looking for specific episode titles, not for a channel. But, Podcasting they're usually looking for a new show. So they're like, I want a new marketing show.

[00:18:53] They're going to type in marketing. They're not going to type in how to run Facebook ads. They're going to type in marketing. They're going to type in social media, right. [00:19:00] They're way more likely to at least, and for that reason you want to make your show SEO around the major keywords in your market. And like the big ones, usually, because a lot of people don't know about this.

[00:19:15] A lot of people want to name their show, whatever they want to name it. And my first idea for naming my podcast was like the way of the hashtag or something. Like, I was just like coming up with like a bunch of like random names. No one would ever find that. Right. Like the only reason I got tons of subscribers like right away for coming out with my show was because it was called Instagram marketing secrets.

[00:19:38] If it was called social bamboo from the beginning, it would have been much, much harder actually. And my show is called social, the social bamboo podcast, colon social media marketing for business. And that's essentially like the, the easiest trick in any podcast you can do to instantly get their first subscribers is to [00:20:00] have their main

[00:20:01] keyword in their market, in their title. If it was just called social bamboo, I would like that because it would look cool and look clean, but it just wouldn't get found. Putting social media in the title of the show is necessary for me. Now you want to find out what's actually open for you. So if you were a new social media marketing podcast, You probably would not want to come in and be social media marketing because there's so many of us there.

[00:20:28] And those of us that are competing on that word are pretty established shows. And I'm really trying to take out some of the other ones. There's some of them that are new, that it just started cranking out episodes. And I don't know why they're outranking me, honestly, podcasts SEO's ranking, like the way that they rank it

[00:20:45] there are so many shows that don't do not deserve to be ranked above me. And I say that with no cockiness in my body, like cocky bone in my body. It's just the fact that like they started like two months ago. Like they started two months ago. Why are [00:21:00] they outranking me on the word social media? I don't get how.

[00:21:04] Ranking system exactly works. I think it's because their show is like social media, marketing, blah, like blank, I'm not going to say it, but they they're, they have the keyword right at the beginning of their title. So ultimately I guess like that's how it works. Having a keyword very early in your title.

[00:21:23] You'll probably own it. So if you'd be like, what, there's not a sh like if I typed in LinkedIn, mark, I can see that there's some shows about LinkedIn marketing, but none of these shows have LinkedIn marketing in their title. So what if I was, LinkedIn marketing tips, something like that.

[00:21:40] You'd probably rank like number one on LinkedIn marketing, like in the first week, honestly, with like how they have it set up. As long as you just come out with a few episodes and the reviews don't even matter for SEO which I wish it did because I have way more reviews than these other shows that are outranking me too.

[00:21:58] And it, if it, that [00:22:00] would make so much more sense if it worked off of reviews, but it doesn't, it just works off., exact match keywords. So just, if you want to name your show something weird, that's fine. But I would just put like, your show title, and then put a colon or like a dash or something and then have like a subtitle that has the keyword in it.

[00:22:18] That is the easiest way to, to get your initial listening.

[00:22:22] Dilip: Oh, okay. Got it. And that's probably why, like what he said, I also noticed that. Podcast, which probably started and then faded off, but they're still ranking on search engines when you search for some specific terms, maybe what you said is probably right.

[00:22:40] That is what, what is helping them in the ranking?

[00:22:43] Derek: Exactly. Yeah. I'm like there, I, there's definitely a show that outranks me on the word social media that hasn't come out with an episode for like over a year. And it's like, they have like 10 total episodes. They haven't come out with an episode over a year.

[00:22:57] They like five reviews. But just because their show is called [00:23:00] social media, blah, like it's just outranks me and it's just like, really doesn't make any sense.

[00:23:06] Dilip: Yeah. So, so Derek, in addition to including that specific keyword in the title, is there anything else that you think we should do from an SEO perspective for podcasts?

[00:23:20] Derek: Yeah. So the general consensus is you want to put that your keywords, like in as many places as you can. But what, where it's actually like definitely made an impact the most next would be in episode titles. So just making sure, like, I try to use the word, Instagram, social media, YouTube, like whatever platform I'm talking about.

[00:23:41] I make sure that I put that in the title. I would never be like, make the number one new growth strategy, it's always going to say number one, new Instagram growth strategy. Like I'm always going to make sure I have those extra keywords in my episode titles. But you usually want to put it in, you get 12 tags [00:24:00] for your podcast.

[00:24:01] So you want to use it in there. You want to put it in your episode description, but I've seen a lot of shows that still outrank me in these categories that have like nothing written in their description. Eh, but then they have it in their title. So like ultimately like your podcast title and your episode title does like 90% of it right there.

[00:24:20] That seems like but then after that, it's, it's going to be just a culmination of all the other little things. I think, I think overall plays is the next thing that it looks for for podcasting, because there's, there's only one person that started their podcasts, like within the last year that outranks me and outranks, like every other social media person right now that doesn't make any sense.

[00:24:45] But then what I found out is she's like a huge Youtuber beforehand. So she actually would be able to drive a ton of traffic to her podcast right away from her YouTube. So having like [00:25:00] ultimately, I think number of plays. It is also one of the biggest ways to get your podcast to rank regardless of if they come from SEO or you're driving those plays outside, yourself from social media.

[00:25:14] Dilip: Yeah. Good point. And while on this point you were talking about reviews and that's something that I wanted to check with you because I saw that your podcast has so many reviews on apple podcasts. I think it's more than 200 reviews when I last saw. So, the usual strategy for getting reviews is that, you ask your audience towards the end of the show to rate the show and review it on apple podcasts.

[00:25:39] And that's probably the strategy that most podcasters are using. So are you doing something different? To get these many number of reviews.

[00:25:47] Derek: Absolutely. Yeah, you have to, if he, if you just ask for reviews, if you ask for a review, expect one in 10,000 people to do it it just doesn't happen. Marketing It's it's this rule that [00:26:00] everyone talks about and man, do you see it on the backend?

[00:26:03] Once you get into marketing people don't care about you. Okay. You can give them hundreds of podcasts, episodes for free, the best advice they've ever heard, and then say, guys, it would help so much. If you could please just leave a review for the show. It does so much for the show. Just takes a second of your time.

[00:26:21] I know you got it. Blah, blah, blah. You can say it in as many creative ways as you want. People don't care. They they're like, eh, it doesn't benefit me. That's part of it. And the other part is the 9 1, 1 effect is what we call it in the United States, at least, which means that people think someone else will do something about it.

[00:26:41] So no one does something about it. They're all like, ah, like I'm sure a bunch, I'm sure a ton of people are going to review his podcast after he said that. So I won't and no one does. So it's like literally it's one in 10,000 plays. will do, will respond to that. Okay. So [00:27:00] what I do is you always have to incentivize it.

[00:27:02] It's all about what's in it for them. All right. The simple means like marketing is so simple when you understand, all you have to do is like give people what they want in exchange for what you want. So otherwise the transaction can't happen. And that's why people think like, oh, I don't want to be like salesy.

[00:27:20] Like you don't have to be salesy. You just have to give people what they want in exchange for what you want, which is usually their money. But in this case, it's the review. So there's two ways that I incentivize reviews the first way is I say, since I'm like a social media marketing podcast, and you want to think about this, like what's everything my business needs.

[00:27:40] And then how can I kill as many birds with one stone as possible? It is how I like to look at marketing and just tackling business in general. What do I need to do? Okay. What are all the things I need to do? Now what action could I do that takes out all of these in one. So, what I did is I, at the end of my podcast [00:28:00] for awhile, or I was doing this at the beginning of them too, just cause not everyone makes it to the end.

[00:28:04] I'd say for anyone that wants a free Instagram audit, if your Instagram, like it should be growing. You have no idea why it's not, you feel like you're doing your hashtags, right. But you just have no idea why your following is not growing. Shoot me a, if you review the podcast and then shoot me a DM screenshot of the review.

[00:28:24] I will look into your account. I will dive in there and I will look at everything until I found out what's going on. Then I will give you a long list of personalized tips for you and, and help you out. So if you want my personalized coaching for free, just shoot me a DM and the screenshot. So what this did is like, obviously they, they review the podcast and they DM me on Instagram, which is valuable, which also usually makes them follow me.

[00:28:48] Then I give them a bunch of advice which builds a bunch of engagement. And then now they trust me as a coach, too. Cause I would actually go off, like I would actually spend like five to 10 minutes per person at least [00:29:00] going through their account. Sometimes way more like if they were doing everything right, it would take me a long time

[00:29:05] figure out like what to do. But I would wait until I found like really good advice to give them, then I'd give them that advice. And then a lot of those people turned into my coaching clients after just because, I mean, one, they obviously wanted personalized coaching. So they took this opportunity to get it for free when they could.

[00:29:24] And then two, they just got a sample of it. So it, killed like five birds with one stone. But really it got me a bunch of podcast reviews. So I do that like twice a year usually. Cause it does get me kind of backed up. Cause I actually, I have like 225. I think reviews on podcasts United States, but I have, but it's different.

[00:29:46] Like there's all these different platforms. Right? I have reviews. I have a few reviews on Stitcher and there's like, there's apple podcasts Australia, apple podcasts United Kingdom. They're all separate. So I've probably more generated over 400 reviews [00:30:00] to get 200 on apple podcasts. So that's the thing like even just getting that apple podcast, number up, you need like double the amount of reviews collected to, to make that thing move.

[00:30:10] So yeah, that, that's the main thing that I do. And then the other thing that I'm doing on episode 200 is, is a giveaway for my coaching services. And one of the ways that they can enter it is by reviewing the podcast to gain entries. So that's one of the things I'm most known for teaching is social media giveaways

[00:30:27] where you just set all the entry steps as what your business needs at that time. So I've got it, like follow on Spotify review on Spotify, review on apple podcasts. all of those things are ways that they can gain entries to win my coaching giveaway.

[00:30:43] Dilip: Good point there. And probably that is where, and what you're also doing is you're tying off that review into lot of the other things that you're offering from a business perspective, like your coaching.

[00:30:55] It essentially becomes a funnel for you where you're filtering your [00:31:00] audience into your your coaching business, right?

[00:31:03] Derek: Exactly. Yeah. The DMs get started and then there's a great relationship built. And even if they don't get into my coaching programs, the fact that I've now given them personalized advice, usually turns them into like a raving fan.

[00:31:15] So now they like all of your posts from there because they've actually had like human contact with you. So it breaks the barrier of, getting to know your listeners.

[00:31:23] Dilip: Great. That's, that's an interesting strategy. So, and you, you also spoke about giveaways and I've, I've listened to a lot of these conversations that you had on some of the other podcasts as well.

[00:31:33] Where, and I, I think that you are an advocate of giveaways, but giveaways in a slightly different way because your strategy of the giveaways have been different to what you usually hear about how to run a giveaway. So what I want to understand from you is when it comes to podcasting, specifically, do you think of giveaways can help build an audience for your podcast and [00:32:00] subsequently, funnel that into whatever your.

[00:32:02] Your offerings are .

[00:32:03] Derek: Definitely. So most of the giveaways out there that you'll see are done really wrong. From my perspective. So they'll do things like, like this post tag, three friends and share this to your story and, and all the stuff that people don't want to do for one. And even when they do tag people, it's like, here's the three people that won't kill me for tagging them. it's not like here's three qualified customers for you, it's, they don't like, they're just doing, doing it to, get entered, but they might even tag their fake accounts. Like it doesn't help, right. Or people give away like an Amazon gift card or something generic. And now you just get all these random followers that just unfollow you once the giveaway is done.

[00:32:47] So what I do is I only want people to follow me from this giveaway, at least that are going to buy my stuff. And the way to find people that are interested in your stuff is you have to [00:33:00] do a giveaway for your stuff. So like that's the first rule is that only give away what you're trying to sell, because then now you have a bunch of pieces.

[00:33:08] Who are interested in what you're trying to sell at least to the point that they want it for free, but of those people that want it for free, there's always some that are like, they entered because they, they wanted it. Right. So what we do is, I'll just do enter your email to, to enter.

[00:33:23] And part of that reason is because when you just do the email, then you can actually run it as a paid ad. And the reason why a lot of people don't get a lot of followers from their giveaways is they only post on their page organically. Right. They just say, enter the giveaway and to enter a follow us.

[00:33:42] And then they post it to like, to people who already follow them. Right. So it's like, it doesn't really get them new followers when they do it that way. But when you can do ads to it, then it will show to people who don't follow you already. So what I do is I essentially, I grabbed the email from it and then after they can gain [00:34:00] additional entries, if they want to do

[00:34:02] the subscribe to my YouTube, subscribe to my podcast, review the podcast. All of those things are additional entry steps after. So I do use like a giveaway program that sets this up. It's not like a bunch of custom coding. It's just like, there's a lot of giveaway programs out there that actually create things like this for you, where you get to put in whatever entry steps and just link it.

[00:34:21] But as far as like, how would I do it in a podcast? It wouldn't apply to 100% of podcasts out there as a new strategy. It would apply to a hundred percent of podcasts that have an audience though. So like, if you have an audience and you can always find out like something to give them, and essentially you, you already have, all your podcasts, people that will enter

[00:34:43] and all the additional entry steps is like the reviews and go follow you on Instagram. And you're essentially just using it as a means of getting your podcast audience to follow you everywhere else. Right. Because if you just like on your pocket, like with the reviews, if you say guys, make sure to follow me on [00:35:00] Instagram.

[00:35:00] One in 10,000, will do it. Like it takes forever to get people from your podcast over to your Instagram. Like, until I said, like, I'll give you a freaking Instagram audit. Like people did not stop start going over there. So it has to be incentivized. Now the reason why only some podcasts I would say, would it work as an initial strategy is because whatever you give away has to be.

[00:35:26] By people who don't know you in that case. Right? So for me, giving away coaching program, I am going to try to run paid ads to it. I don't know exactly how it's going to go. It's not going to go as smoothly as if I was an automotive podcast talking about cars and I was giving away a car. Like, I mean, I probably could afford that, but like giving away, some kind of car, part, something for cars, car lovers

[00:35:52] that like, they don't even care like how good my podcast is. They're like, Hey, if you're giving that away we'll enter and then I could [00:36:00] do it. If I was an automotive podcast and I could give away a prize that is reflective of anyone who would want this prize. Like if you were doing like old muscle cars podcast, right.

[00:36:11] And you were giving away some kind of vintage, old muscle cars thing then yeah, you're going to gain the audience you want and it totally would work. If if you're a business coach or if you're like in real estate, like a real estate coach, you're not going to give away a house, but it's also like, what do you give away?

[00:36:26] Like, then you can go like Amazon gift card, but then it's like a weird random audience, but then it's hard. So it mostly is if you can think of a prize to give away that would attract the audience you want. It works. Otherwise you might have to wait until you build an audience of people who really know you cause like that realtor can be like I'm giving away my personalized coaching.

[00:36:51] Right? So if you can find a way to decorate your personalized coaching in a way that someone who's never heard of you would still want it, then it would also work, but it's just a little bit [00:37:00] trickier.

[00:37:01] Dilip: Yeah, absolutely. Right. So, I think more than running a giveaway to build audience, it is important for, somebody to think

[00:37:10] more in terms of how we'll be able to divert that audience, that, that giveaway audience to some of the other platforms that we are in, and even maybe building an email list, because I think that is the one that'll make the most sense, right?

[00:37:22] Derek: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. The email list, I mean, everyone's got one, email's not going anywhere and then you can set them up on automated sequences.

[00:37:31] So after they enter, then they can get, you're entered and, and all that stuff. But I always like to, at the end of the giveaway too, I, I always say, Hey, here's the person who won, for, if you have a product for sale, then you can say, for everyone else, you can get a discount on the product.

[00:37:46] So it works really great too, if you have like a product to sell, but in a podcast sense, you would just say, for now, just keep listening to the podcast and we'll do a nother giveaway later.

[00:37:56] Dilip: Okay. So coming back to one of the most [00:38:00] important, promotional strategies today, I think social media is something that most people focus on when it comes to promoting anything.

[00:38:07] It could be blogging podcasting, YouTube social media is where everybody is going to promote most of these things. So when it comes to Instagram and specifically from a podcasting perspective, and I've seen a couple of, big podcasters as well. So what they've done is they have two Instagram accounts.

[00:38:27] One is maybe, their personal Instagram account where they're talking about themselves and some of the products as in services that they have putting that they're offering. And then there is another account which is specifically for the podcast and, there, they usually publish information about whatever their podcast is about and those kinds of things.

[00:38:48] So what do you recommend. Is Instagram something that, you should be looking up to in terms of promotion when it comes to podcasts. And do [00:39:00] you recommend keeping these two accounts or should it be just one account to, where you're promoting all of these things?

[00:39:06] Derek: Yeah. So there's a very simple rule that I have for whether or not you should have different accounts or not.

[00:39:12] Is the content made for one type of person? So for me, like I do I, so I have like a personal Instagram that is like, call it like my friends and like just my initial Instagram account. And I don't have like any podcast listeners over there, I think have plenty of them, like still find me eventually and follow me over there.

[00:39:32] But it's just like, obviously I'm not sharing any kind of value over there. Like pictures of friends, it's, it's, just my normal account. And some people have more of like their personal brand, but it's like, professional selfies and it's like really like their brand image account. I don't really have that one.

[00:39:48] But then I have like my social bamboo account, which I actually did have named Derek Videll for a while, but I switched it just to social bamboo for a couple of reasons. But I [00:40:00] could divide, I could have a personal professional page and I could have a podcasts professional page, but I have those two combined.

[00:40:08] And the reason why is because the audience is still the same, they're similar enough, they're just entrepreneurs. Right? So if I only shared social media tips from my page, maybe it'd be easier to grow, but honestly. I'm creating the content that I want to create and I'm it, as it comes to my head. So I do like a lot of like, quotes about never giving up and failure and stuff like that. whatever I feel like is good information, but it's all for the same type of person. So if if you are personal brand account. If you're like, if you're a realtor on your personal brand account and all your podcast is about fantasy football, then yes. They need to be different accounts. If you're still like posting to the same type of people in either way, then I would just keep them the same, because then it's easier to run less accounts.

[00:40:57] Keep all the followers in one place. What was [00:41:00] the second part of your question?

[00:41:02] Dilip: So what I basically want is using Instagram. So what I wanted to understand is, is Instagram, even something that you should be using to promote your podcast, because it's, most of them, as in, if you look at Instagram today, it's more of those beautiful pictures and, reels where people are dancing and some songs and all of that.

[00:41:22] How effective is it to use for promoting podcasts?

[00:41:26] Derek: So you need an Instagram for your podcast, weather, how however much you post on there is up to you, but you do need it for the sake of your, your fans can't DM you otherwise. And Instagram is the only platform that like pretty much everyone has, right?

[00:41:45] So like th that's the first place they're going to go. If they want to set, if a podcast listener wants to send you a. That's where they're going to check. If they would check on LinkedIn first, it would be a very small percentage. Which is also why you do need a LinkedIn too. Even if you're not going to post there, you need to live [00:42:00] there.

[00:42:00] You need to have your podcast linked, you need to have your bio set up. And it just has to be, you have to be find-able on these other locations. Instagram and LinkedIn, I'll, I'll leave it at just those two. You must have a podcast page for, to keep connecting with listeners. The reason why Instagram, Instagram, I drive more

[00:42:20] plays from people who already listen to my podcasts, that then get a reminder about my existence than I do from new people. Right? So I've got a decent amount of podcasts listeners that follow me. So like when I like post on my story that a new episode comes out or I, if I post about anything, here's the deal.

[00:42:42] Like when people know that you run a podcast, you don't have to tell them about a podcast episode to drive plays for it. You can just show up in their feed. And they'll be reminded of your show because they just, associate the two of you. So I can post reels about like [00:43:00] anything and it just keeps my podcast audience in the loop.

[00:43:03] Always remembering that, Hey, maybe I have another episode. So it is important in that. As far as finding new listeners it's hard for a regular post to really go anywhere. Reels is where all the organic reach is, then it's a matter of, can you actually, like, can you provide value like through the reels and how a lot of podcasters want to do it as they're like I will put my podcast on Instagram and, save time audio grams, like

[00:43:31] people each platform is different. Like each platform wants different content. So like multipurposing content is one of the best sounding strategies on paper that does not work very well. In most cases, if you take audio grams, which is just, an audio recording of it with like a wavelength moving as we talk.

[00:43:51] And it just says like episode number. And it's like 60 seconds long and you post it. It just does not do well. Motion graphics [00:44:00] don't do well as it is. And then audio the audio only doesn't do well on Instagram. And it just kills your engagement. So it's better to just not post anything at all in that case, because that just like kills your engagement and just people don't want to consume it that way.

[00:44:15] If you have, like, there's a guy named Dan Henry who does this really well. He has a podcast where he interviews people and he turns them into reels. And it's in a business sense and it looks bad ass, it's like he has the studio set up for it. He's got the lighting it's filmed on professional cameras.

[00:44:31] He cuts it really cool. And it doesn't feel like you're watching a podcast. Like, I mean, it's cut up and clipped so much that it's so fast moving that it's appropriate for a real like the, the pace at which someone speaks on a podcast is not the pace of a delivery that Instagram wants as far as like how much value they're getting per second.

[00:44:52] So it really is difficult to take any just straight up 30 to 60 seconds of your podcasts and put it on Instagram. Like it's usually [00:45:00] gotta be very cut up. But in that case, it's, it's nine by 16 content. It's, it's not like a widescreen video. Like people like put a wide screen zoom video

[00:45:09] Their podcast as a reel, and then it's just has all this black space around it. So it's like you, whatever you're posting on the post has to be designed for that platform. And that's the tricky thing of like, how can I take my podcast and its existing form and change it and modify it in a way that it truly does come across

[00:45:31] as opposed that belongs on Instagram too. That's why it's really hard for a lot of podcasters to just use their content to grow. Otherwise I, for the most part, I mean, I'm doing like Twitter screenshot. Like I post on Twitter and then I screenshot it and then I moved that over to Instagram.

[00:45:46] That's one of the easiest types of posts that I do that, I can just come up, come up with a thought and then post it, like not much longer later. And it, and it does pretty well on Instagram. Cause like Instagram likes that kind of stuff. They like just [00:46:00] simple, one to three sentence quotes.

[00:46:02] So maybe that's a good way to do it. If you're not trying to get on video or post photos or do dances, like you said, it's a matter of what can you do? Not. What can I do is the way to look at it, but I think there's a way to always figure out some kind of way to do reels. But it's very difficult for your Instagram posts to get you new listeners.

[00:46:23] I will say it, it, they will, you'll just get, it's easier to get new listeners from YouTube and the podcast itself. Than from Instagram, for your podcast, it's easier to go on other people's podcasts and get listeners. And like it's easier to get long form content people over to your long form content podcast than it is to get very quick, moving Instagram over your podcasts, but it works very well for always staying top of mind with your listeners is why it's very important.

[00:46:52] Dilip: Yeah. I think the objective with which you plan to use Instagram is important. So what you're seeing is from [00:47:00] trying to gain new audience. I think Instagram might not be a very effective platform, but from, being in the minds of people, staying with them, I think that is where Instagram can help podcasting a lot.

[00:47:14] Right. Correct. Okay. So one last question that I have for you there. So for somebody. Starting off with a podcast. And, when it comes to India, I think from a podcasting perspective the, the knowledge on how to get started itself isn't that common, a lot of people don't have that knowledge as well.

[00:47:32] For somebody who's planning to get started with podcast and who plans to stay in it for the longterm considering you're, you're almost hitting about 200 episodes. What would be your tips so that they start off on the right foot.

[00:47:46] Derek: So with starting anything the longer you wait, the more irrational fears sink in, it's like standing on top of a diving board.

[00:47:55] Jumping into a pool. If you just go right away, it's a lot [00:48:00] easier. If you stand there for like an hour, like you're just gonna get in your head and the longer you wait to start a podcast, the harder it's going to be. I started my podcast three hours after I thought about it, I was like, that'd be a good idea.

[00:48:14] I told my girlfriend at the time, she said, that's a horrible idea. And I was like, now I have to start it. So I started it like right then like I, on my phone, I was like, I, I can't afford a mic right now. Or I don't even want to even deal with that, but I just want to start it right now. And I was like I went to Google, how to start a podcast.

[00:48:32] It was like anchor. I was like, all right, recorded three episodes and published them. And then I was still doing my travel everywhere sales job. So I recorded my first 30 episodes while driving, like while driving around. So I, I don't wait at all. I start immediately. And that's the only way that I think that I think it's the most effective way of, yeah, there's a, you want to start a podcast

[00:48:56] perfectly?. Do it on your second podcast will [00:49:00] be the one that you start perfectly, the first podcast. How would you start a podcast perfectly if you haven't done it before yet. So the first one is. You can't even learn until you've started. Like, and that's why like, school doesn't really work that well, it's like everything you learn in business school, you will then Google at the time it comes to apply it because it's like, you won't remember like, oh six years ago, this was on a test.

[00:49:23] if it's like how to form a business with your government, like, and then you get it right on the test, like five years later when it's like time to do it, you're just going to Google and do it right. You do not, like you're listening to this episode on how to start a podcast right now.

[00:49:38] Great. You don't need to listen to another one. It's just a matter of just go get bus route, get a mic. If you can't afford a mic recording on your phone, if you're, I'm not sure. if you're going to be good enough, well, then record an episode and see that like, it's just, don't get in your head about what if I'm not good enough?

[00:49:58] Is it too saturated? All you [00:50:00] gotta know is most of the world has no initiative and there they quit very easily. And if you just assume that, like, anytime you have thoughts, like what if it's too saturated? Well, it won't ever be because the world is full of quitters and people who don't start things ever so. Great.

[00:50:19] Like I'll just start right now. And I won. Like, you can just so many people don't ever start, that it just makes it such an opportunity that if you don't get stuck, Phase, like you're already ahead of like 90% of people, like 90% of people who want to start a podcast, don't do it at least at least 90% don't ever start it.

[00:50:43] So if you just think about like, like after you recorded an episode two now you'll have like legit questions now you'll be like, oh, Actually like how do you edit a pod, like out, how do I make the audio sound better? Like now you'll be able to ask yourself questions and then solve them and then [00:51:00] apply it immediately.

[00:51:01] Like you won't watch an episode on how to edit a podcast and then store it in the back of your mind, you'll be like, all right, now, time to edit one. Like you'll be able to apply it immediately. So you have to start it so that you can apply it immediately. But you can always restart a podcast. If you need to, you can always rename your podcast like I did after a year?

[00:51:21] So like the, you will always be able to adjust once you get started. But you do have to just figure out any kind of way to get started is the best way.

[00:51:33] Dilip: Good point there. And I think, yeah what is said, most of the time it happens that we go to YouTube, watch a video on how to do something and then.

[00:51:41] We just leave it there. It's after six months that we are starting off. And then we, once again go back to you to search for the same thing on how to do it and it's then that we're going to implement it. So I think, yeah, what you said is absolutely right.

[00:51:52] Derek: Yeah. You've, you've got it. Perfect. There you watch the same YouTube video again, and then you store it and then it's just, unless you apply [00:52:00] it right there.

[00:52:01] Sorry.

[00:52:04] Dilip: Right, so. Thanks a lot, Derek. It was, it was nice talking to you. There was so much of information that you shared and I think some of the aspects about SEO, Instagram, and even for that matter, running the giveaways because I, I see a lot of people running giveaway, just like what you said, the incorrect way.

[00:52:22] So most all of those things that we spoke about, there was a lot of good information and I'm sure it'll benefit the audience. Thanks a lot for coming on the show, joining me and talking to me about podcasting and about everything about podcast, promotion.

[00:52:39] Derek: Yeah, man. It was a blast. It was a lot of great questions.

[00:52:41] Thanks so much for having me on.

[00:52:43] Dilip: Thanks a lot. We look forward to talking to you again at some point, but thanks a lot for joining today and you have a wonderful rest of the day. Thanks. Talk to you soon. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the podcasting university. Then, please do write a review for the show and rate it on apple [00:53:00] podcast.

[00:53:00] It will take just a few minutes of yours, but it will help in the overall ranking of this show on apple podcast. Visit the podcasting university.com for the show notes and the transcript for this episode. And you will also be able to sign up to my free four day basics of podcasting course in there, which will help you get started with your podcast.

[00:53:22] That is all that I have for this episode. I'll be back again the next episode with some interesting information about podcasting and our guest who will teach us more about how to get started with a successful podcast. Keep listening to the podcasting university. We are available on pretty much all podcasting platforms, including apple podcasts, Google podcasts, Stitcher, TuneIn, radio, Spotify, JioSaavn and Amazon prime music.

[00:53:54] So with that, this is goodbye from Dilip. You all have a wonderful rest of [00:54:00] the week.

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[00:54:55] Dilip: ...