TPU48 – Elements of an Effective Podcasting Framework – Interview with Courtney Elmer (Effortless Life)

Episode-48

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[00:00:00] Courtney: But because you've positioned your show well with a name that speaks to your ideal audience and with an angle to the topic that is unique to you, the unique expertise that you bring to the table, you're suddenly solving that problem for people in a different way. And so that's what attracts them. They might look at your show and go, Hmm, that sounds like that's for me, because they're talking about.

[00:00:26] Dilip: Welcome to the podcasting university. Looking for help on starting your own podcast?

[00:00:32] Then this is a place to be. We will help you with everything from selecting your topic to promoting and more prioritizing your podcast in the simplest language possible. Listen to other podcasters who've been through the grind and learn from them as we interview them. Every week, you can find more details on the podcasting university.com.[00:01:00]

[00:01:00] Hello, and welcome to episode 48 of the podcasting university. This is Dilip, your host and in this episode, we are gonna talk about a very critical aspect of podcasting, which is putting together a framework for your podcast. This is something that I'd spoken in a much detail in one of my earlier episodes.

[00:01:20] You can listen to that episode, uh, which is, I think about two episodes back, but in Todays episode, I have an expert in systems, an expert who helps businesses put together systems and structure so that they can scale their businesses without burning themselves out. And she is going to talk to us about putting together a good system, a good framework for your podcast.

[00:01:49] So in this episode I have with me, Courtney Elmer. Courtney is the founder and CEO of the effortless life which is a company that is dedicated to helping [00:02:00] leaders get the right systems, structure and support in place so that they can scale their businesses. She is a corporate escapee, she's a cancer survivor and a host of the globally ranked podcast systems made so simple.

[00:02:18] Her expertise on business systems and podcasting has been sought by a lot of leaders and teams from Forbes, Business news daily, pop sugar, Buzzfeed, and dozen other. So join me in welcoming Courtney Elmer to the podcasting university. Hi Courtney, welcome to the podcasting university. It's a pleasure to have you here and I'm looking forward to talking a lot about podcasting today.

[00:02:45] Courtney: Oh, I'm so excited to be here. Thank you.

[00:02:48] Dilip: So Courtney, before we get started, uh, I think it'll be good for our audience to know a little more about you, the kind of business that you are into and what your podcast is all about. [00:03:00]

[00:03:00] Courtney: Yes, absolutely. So I am the creator and founder of a company called the effortless life and we are a company that's dedicated to helping visionary leader,

[00:03:12] business owners get the right systems and support in place in their business so that they can scale that business to this seven figure mark without burning out in the process. And so we really focus on systems. We focus on organization and one of the marketing systems in particular that we teach is podcasting because we have found it to be

[00:03:36] such an effective way to right, build your platform to generate leads in sales and to really connect with your community and get your message out to a wider audience. So I'm excited to share about all of that today, but that's just a little nutshell, you know, on my background and, and what we do.

[00:03:53] Dilip: Great.

[00:03:54] And, uh, the name of your podcast is, is systems made simple, right? Yes. Yes. [00:04:00] Okay. So before we get into some details of, uh, podcasting, there is this question that I had in mind. So I was listening to some of your earlier episodes, and I think you rebranded your podcasts from, uh, the effortless life podcast to systems made simple, right?

[00:04:16] Courtney: That's correct. We did.

[00:04:19] Dilip: Yeah. So just wanted to understand Courtney. And I think this is a question that a lot of us would have, and, you know, in some of the discovery calls that I do, I hear a lot of people who ask me this question as well. So. When you rebranded your podcast, when, when you're changing that name, how does that change impact the overall, uh, listenership of the podcast and what kind of an impact does that make and what are some situations where you recommend that you should actually go about

[00:04:51] rebranding your podcast.

[00:04:53] Courtney: This is an awesome question. So it's a question I get asked often too, because oftentimes, you know, some of the [00:05:00] podcasters that we work with, come to us with an existing podcast that isn't performing the way they want it to. Others come to us, wanting to launch a podcast and they really help to choose a name that is going to reach their ideal audience.

[00:05:16] So first I would like to share about naming your podcast and some things to think about, and this might help if you have an existing podcast to help, you know, if a rebrand might be worthwhile for you. So when you name your podcast, you really want to choose a name that is going to attract your ideal listener. Mm-hmm.

[00:05:37] And so to use my own podcast, as an example, when we first created the podcast, it was called the effortless life podcast and it was on brand, right? Our brand is our company is the effortless life. And so in my mind, I really didn't give much thought to the name of the show. Beyond that I saw it as an extension of our brand, and I thought,

[00:05:59] that makes sense. [00:06:00] Right. Great name. However, what I learned with that was that we didn't have the brand awareness yet. For other people, seeing that podcast to know what it was about. And on the show, we talked about business, we talked about podcasting, we talked about mindset. We talked about systems. There are a lot of the same topics that we talked about then that we talk about now.

[00:06:24] But the problem was that for someone coming across that particular podcast, the effortless life in their Apple podcast dashboard, for example, or on Spotify or on Google, They wouldn't have necessarily known what the show was about from the name alone. And the name and your cover art are the two first things that people see when browsing potential podcasts to listen to.

[00:06:51] Right. So I learned that in hindsight and realized, you know, we weren't reaching our ideal audience. [00:07:00] Or growing as quickly as we wanted to, even though we were growing, it wasn't as quickly as we wanted to because we realized we were missing out on a whole group of people who could have benefited from the show, but who probably saw the name and just didn't even know, you know, that it was be a show for them.

[00:07:16] So when we rebranded, we chose to rebrand with that in mind, knowing that not that the first name was bad, but that it didn't help us meet our goal of reaching our ideal audience. And so when we rebranded to systems made simple, all of a sudden we saw an uptick in downloads. We saw, we got responses and, and reviews from people who were saying how relevant and how helpful the information was.

[00:07:42] And it was because suddenly the name spoke to them. Right? And if systems is something that a business owner looking for a podcast for, for business help was struggling with and systems made simple, would speak to them. And that was the exact person we wanted to attract someone who was struggling with systems [00:08:00] in their business who needed help with organization and who really wanted to learn, you know, how to streamline they, their business.

[00:08:06] So we found that in changing the name, it helped us to attract more of our ideal listeners. So I share that story. And that example, you know, if you're sitting here listening today and you have a podcast and it's not growing as quickly as you would like taking a look at the name of your podcast could be a great place to start.

[00:08:27] And often we see three types of names with podcasting. So the first is where they're, it's very direct systems made simple or online marketing made easy or podcasting university. Those are all very clear, very direct. It gives you an idea of what the show is about. The second category we see are names that are more mysterious and creative, and those types of names can work for, let's say a true crime podcast, for example, however, the name is not very descriptive.

[00:08:59] [00:09:00] So unless you know what that podcast is about, it might not catch your eye. And then the third type of name we see is where the podcast is named either after the brand or after the host. And in those cases that only really works if you already have brand awareness, otherwise, someone who doesn't know you might not naturally gravitate toward your show because as you haven't had that brand awareness, Yet in the marketplace.

[00:09:30] And that was the problem we ran into was nobody knew what the effortless life was about. And so that's why the name didn't serve us in that way.

[00:09:39] Dilip: Right. And, uh, so when, when you're naming your podcast with the name of your brand, I think, I think that works more for podcasts that, for example, you know, a company who wants to start a podcast, specifically targeting their employees, uh, you know, like in order to provide information to their employees, I think that kind of a naming a [00:10:00] nomenclature will work for those kind of podcasts.

[00:10:03] Right.

[00:10:05] Courtney: Yes. It could work there in that type of situation, sure. If it was specifically for the employees of that company, that would be a, an area where it would make sense. So that's one thing you gotta consider is who is your podcast for? Who are you trying to reach and what name will help you to achieve that objective to really reach those particular people.

[00:10:29] Dilip: Right?

[00:10:29] Yeah.

[00:10:33] When, when you rebranded, you said because earlier I think considering, uh, what you said, considering your audience weren't able to understand what in specific your podcast was. So when you rebranded your show, you saw an uptick in your listenership, right? There was an increase in your audience, right?

[00:10:52] Courtney: Yes.

[00:10:53] Yes and what we noticed was that. The information on the podcast, [00:11:00] even though the topics didn't change that much, we did start including more systems based topics, but we still included, you know, the business, the mindset, things that we had always talked about, but it was better received. And so what I mean by that is we would get messages both through podcast reviews and also on social media, via email people reaching out mm-hmm to say, gosh, this episode really helped me or whatever you shared on such and such episode really made a difference in my business.

[00:11:33] And so, because it was clearer in the person's mind of what, what the show was about, suddenly the information that we were sharing. The, the perceived value of that information increased for that person as well, because it was clearer in their mind.

[00:11:50] Dilip: Nice. So while we are talking about audience and the kind of topic that we should cover in our podcast, something that I would like to know is, [00:12:00] uh, for example, your podcast is in the business niche where, you know, it's about helping business owners simplify their day to day activity, uh, simplifying their overall business without burning out.

[00:12:11] it is in a very specific niche. So you identified a niche that was very targeted in a business category, which has thousands of podcasts out there. So there is a step that you would've followed to identify that niche to stand out from the crowd. So if you can tell us what are the kind of steps that you followed or the processes that you followed in order to identify these niche?

[00:12:36] Uh, it'll help a lot of people who are looking to narrow in, on a specific niche to stay relevant in podcasting.

[00:12:43] Courtney: This is a fantastic question too, cuz this is something you absolutely wanna take into account whenever you're considering a podcast. And even if you're considering a podcast rebrand for a show that

[00:12:55] maybe hasn't grown as quickly as you would like. So obviously with podcasting, you know, I think we [00:13:00] could all agree. The goal is to reach a wider audience with your message kind of on a fundamental level. Sure. You might wanna generate leads. You might wanna monetize and add a stream of revenue. There could be other goals there, but on a very fundamental, basic level, wanna reach a wider audience, right?

[00:13:17] The information, the expertise, and the content that we have to share. And so. When you look at the podcast out there, there are some categories like business that are very competitive. Fitness is another competitive one. Weight loss is another competitive one health wellness. And so in some of these categories that tend to be more competitive.

[00:13:39] It is all the more important that we can position our show in a way that stands out. And show positioning is something that few people think about when launching a podcast. And I see this all the time with our students. It's, they're, they're excited about getting their show up. They wanna get their message out there, but because they don't [00:14:00] necessarily understand.

[00:14:01] How the algorithm works or how the podcasts are categorized. They don't know to think about positioning their show to really stand out. So what happens is, and the mistakes, some people I've seen make, they'll launch a show, they'll launch their topic, they'll start podcasting and they'll get discouraged very quickly because they're not

[00:14:23] reaching the audience they wanna reach. And they know this because their downloads are very few. They might have 20 downloads an episode, maybe 30, and they get very discouraged because they're like, wait a second. I thought podcasting was gonna be this great thing to help me reach my audience. And it can, and it does when you position it

[00:14:43] correctly. So I'd love to talk about positioning for a bit. And really just this idea that, um, positioning is the number one thing that's going to help your podcast stand out. [00:15:00] And so whenever you are thinking of your positioning in your podcast, much like with your name, you want to consider what makes you different?

[00:15:11] What is the unique angle of expertise that you bring to the table? And so I shared this example with a workshop that I taught with my students recently. And I'll share this example here with you is when you look at your particular niche in the podcasting space. What I would recommend you do is pull up that category.

[00:15:36] And I would recommend doing this on a desktop or a laptop, cuz you'll be able to see more of the podcast thumbnails at, at one place as opposed to on a phone where you can only see a couple at a time. And so let's just say on your, on your laptop, this is my process for this I'll I'll sit here on my laptop.

[00:15:52] I'll pull up apple podcasts. And in this search bar, I'll type in my keyword, my topic. And it might be business [00:16:00] entrepreneurship, or it might be weight loss, or it might be health and wellness, whatever your topic is. And then it'll pull up the top podcast in that category. And so what you wanna do is you wanna first take a look at what podcasts already exist in that category.

[00:16:17] What are the end goals that people are coming at the topic with? So for example, in the weight loss category, this was one that I researched recently. And there are so many different angles. There are podcasts about fat loss. There are podcast geared towards women. There are podcast geared towards women over 50.

[00:16:36] There are podcasts geared toward people who have over a hundred pounds to lose. So you can notice quickly just by doing that little bit of research, you can see what topics are already out there that are being spoken to. And then you can look at the unique expertise that you provide on that topic and come up with, and then brainstorm names from that point.

[00:16:58] To help speak to [00:17:00] the particular angle as to how you solve that problem. So what happens is when you do that, And then when you take a look at the category, you might still be positioned in the business category as we are, for example, or you might still be positioned in the health and wellness category, which are competitive, but because you've positioned your show well with a name that speaks to your ideal audience and with an angle

[00:17:27] to the topic that is unique to you, the unique expertise that you bring to the table, you're suddenly solving that people, that problem for people in a different way. Mm-hmm . And so that's what attracts them. They might look at your show and go, Hmm, that sounds like that's for me, because they're talking about

[00:17:46] this particular thing, right? I'm not just talking about entrepreneurship generally, or sharing, inspiring stories of entrepreneurs or talking about sales or marketing, which can all certainly be other podcasts in the business category. [00:18:00] But I'm talking about simplifying business and a very unique angle to that through systems.

[00:18:06] So when you can kind of look at it through that lens and recognize that your podcast. Serves as, as an, an umbrella, if you will, for all the topics that you'll be talking about, that fit within that umbrella. And you can look at what your unique umbrella is, you know, is it purple? Is it blue? What's the unique angle that you bring to the table and then choose a name that helps to highlight that.

[00:18:30] Then it really helps you to stand out in these categories that tend to be more competitive. So that'd be my recommendation there. And then another thing that will help you stand out, which I'm sure we'll talk about and we could get into is how you actually launch your podcast, because that makes a difference as well.

[00:18:46] Dilip: Yeah. Uh, we will touch upon that, but. Before that, uh, Courtney, another thing that I also noticed is that, uh, the kind of guests that you bring on your podcast. Now, these guests, aren't somebody who are seen on, uh, [00:19:00] multiple podcasts where they are sharing these same stories or these tips on their systems.

[00:19:05] So how do you find these guests and what is your technique, uh, to find them and know if they are the right fit for your show.

[00:19:16] Courtney: Yes. So for guests it's really been interesting because our podcast grew so quickly from the beginning, thanks to the launch. And then eventually our positioning, which helped a lot.

[00:19:28] We've really have a lot of guests who reach out to us. And we're very selective about who we bring on this show. And so this sometimes means that we have plenty of guests to fill up the available slots based on who's reached out. Sometimes it means that we don't have the guests to fill up that slot and we have to actually go seek those guests to bring on guests who we really feel will provide value to our audience in the way that we want to provide value to our audience.

[00:19:55] Right. So. If, uh, now I'll talk about this kind of from both, both sides. So first [00:20:00] talking about the guests who pitch us. We have some guidelines in place for the types of guests that we're looking for. And we get pitched all day long from potential guests. And we actually say no to a lot of them. Not because they're bad people, not because they don't have a good message, not because, you know, we don't like their business in any way, but simply because their message or the angle at which they approach their message, isn't a fit for the angle

[00:20:31] through which we're approaching business on the podcast. So lemme give you a concrete example. We might have someone that might pitch us about talking all about mindset for your business. And while that's very important, if they can't break that down into a formula, a framework, a system or a process or a workflow of some sort, and they just wanna speak to that topic more broadly.

[00:20:57] We turn them down because we want someone who can come to the [00:21:00] show and give our audience a very clear plan of action to follow and say, Hey, these are the five pillars you need to know. Mm-hmm to help you improve your marketing or your messaging. These are the, the three step framework to help you implement X, Y, Z in your business.

[00:21:15] So that's what we're really looking for, number one, on a content perspective. And then as our podcast has grown. Part of our strategy in order to reach new audiences and get new listeners to our show is to invite guests on who have either the same size or larger audience than, than we do. And so this is not to exclude people with small audiences or to say that with that their message is not valuable because certainly it is.

[00:21:42] And we do make, except to this rule, if the message. Is very valuable for our audience, but because our ultimate goal is to draw more listeners to our podcast. It makes more sense for us to invite guests who have an equal or greater size audience, because when [00:22:00] they share our episode, We are more likely to pick up listeners from their audience.

[00:22:05] So that's a very strategic thing that we do. And there's a few different types of collaborations. Sometimes we invite them to do a video with us on Instagram. In addition to their episode, we send them social graphics and things that they can share to promote that episode, to make it very easy for them.

[00:22:22] And so we see an uptick in downloads and in listeners, when we do that, and we found that that's a very, very easy and effective way to grow your show when you're very selective about the type of guests you bring on. So those are kind of the two rules of thumb that we follow. Number one, we make, wanna make sure that the content that that person has to share, right.

[00:22:44] Actually aligns with the type of content that, that our show, the standard that we hold for that. And then number two, the audience size, because our end game is show growth. You know, we want to grow our show and of course, add value to people and help them. And [00:23:00] so those are things that help you grow right, is to get in front of new audiences and provide values.

[00:23:04] That's those are kind of our two rules of thumb there. So that's when, when reviewing pitches that come in. But what about whenever we don't have, we have an open spot and we don't have anyone to fill that spot. So our process there is we will use a tool like listen notes.com or pod chaser.com. And we will go to those sites and we will type in a keyword.

[00:23:31] And we, maybe the keyword is sales systems or sales funnels, or maybe it's marketing systems, marketing funnels, whatever topic we're looking to fill. And we'll look at the podcasts that come up with those topics. And we'll look at the hosts of those podcasts. And we'll look to see if that host could be a potential fit as a guest on our show.

[00:23:56] And so often we'll reach out to those hosts and say, Hey. [00:24:00] We're the host of systems made simple podcast. You know, we, this is a few little bit about us, about what we teach, you know, we've noticed on your podcast, you teach this, this and this, and we think that you, your expertise would be a great fit for our audience.

[00:24:16] And so what we're really looking at here is where are the content gaps that we have that we need guests to F fill? And then what guests who again, follow our content framework, you know, they, they have content that would be aligned, with what we deliver on the show and they have an audience of equal or greater size to us, and we give them the opportunity to share their expertise on our show.

[00:24:38] And I don't know if you have found this, but I've certainly found that it's very easy to book guests for your podcast. You know, people are usually more than willing to show up for an interview because it benefits them. You know, they're able to get their message out there, but it's all a matter of knowing who and how to get them to your show.

[00:24:55] And those are some of the guidelines that we follow.

[00:24:58] Dilip: All right. Excellent. [00:25:00] That's, that's some really nice tips, uh, Courtney on, uh, filtering guests because, you know, I've seen that a lot of people find it difficult to bring the right guests on the show and like what you said, uh, you know, finding guests isn't difficult, but.

[00:25:15] Finding the right guest is difficult. So I think some of these tips that you just shared, something that we can implement when we are, uh, you know, shortlisting guests for our show. Right. Uh, and another thing that I wanted to check with you on, uh, is that you said that you had a brand and you had a business which was worthless life, and it is then that you started the podcast, which was obviously an additional effort,

[00:25:41] additional burden on your resources, but it still went ahead and started it maybe because, uh, you found that there is a benefit with starting the podcast, uh, indirectly, maybe profiting or benefiting your brand or your core business. So has your podcast helped [00:26:00] your core business? And if at all, it has. How has it helped?

[00:26:04] And what is the kind of funnel that you follow in order to channel your podcast audience to your core business and then maybe monetize it uh, there?

[00:26:15] Courtney: Yes. Oh, this is my favorite topic to talk about because a podcast could be so beneficial for your marketing strategy, especially if you run a business. And so if your goal, whether you run a business or not, you know, if your goal is to grow your platform, to grow your audience, for whatever reason, maybe you want to monetize that maybe you want to sell more of your products or your programs.

[00:26:42] Maybe you want to grow your platform because you are a writer and eventually you wanna sell books, right? Whatever that reason might be, the platform growth is. A podcast is one of the fastest, most effective ways to grow your platform. And so, to, to, to explain why [00:27:00] I'll share this story with you back in the early days of podcasting for me, this was before I had officially launched my show.

[00:27:10] I would listen to podcasts. I would binge listen to podcasts. My son was very young at the time, and sometimes the only time in the day that I could get free time would be to put him in his stroller and we would go for a walk in the neighborhood and I would just put my air AirPods in and listen to podcasts.

[00:27:29] And one day it dawned on me and I said, Instead of being in the audience each week, listening to these experts share their knowledge on whatever topics. What if I could use a podcast as my stage to build an audience of my own. And at the time I had grown very frustrated with social media because I was putting content out and it just, it wasn't that it wasn't being well received.

[00:27:56] It wasn't bad content, but I'm sure many people [00:28:00] listening can agree. You know, social media can be frustrating at times that it is so difficult to grow. There it is. So competitive engagement can be very, and often it can be difficult to convert people, you know, from social media to your email list or into your business.

[00:28:16] And so that was the big pain point for me at the time. And so I thought to myself, you know, if a podcast could provide me a way to create a deeper connection with my audience, then the time and the energy and the effort putting into it would be so worth it. And that was, that was kind of the initial motivator for me was I just wanted a deeper connection with my audience in a way that social media couldn't provide.

[00:28:44] So that was the impetus that got me started with a podcast. But what I quickly learned was that a podcast actually saves you time on marketing because while yes, it takes some time up front to book guests, [00:29:00] interview guests, or come up with content for solo episodes. That content is evergreen content that has a very, very long lifespan.

[00:29:11] So unlike a social media post, where you put it up and it's gone scrolled past, you know, within 24 hours, everyone's forgotten about it. People go back and listen to podcast episodes from years ago. I can remember, I found a podcast one time that I, I was just devouring. It was so good. It was all about business.

[00:29:29] And I was in a stage where I was trying to grow my business and learn as much as possible. And I went all the way back to episode one. There's like over 400 episodes in this podcast. And I started listening from episode one. And so. The lifespan. First of all, that that podcast content has, is a very long lifespan.

[00:29:49] So for a minimal upfront investment of your time, that content can live on right, and on and on. And it compounds, you develop this library of content that people can learn from. [00:30:00] So that's kind of number one way that it'll save you time on your marketing. But the number two way is that a podcast can become the source

[00:30:08] of all the other content you create. In fact, right before I hopped on this interview, I had a team meeting with two of my team members who are responsible in a very large part for managing the podcast, for taking content from the podcast and sharing that content on social media. And we were talking about our processes for doing that and how our podcast really has become the number one source of

[00:30:32] all the other content in our business, it provides content for our weekly emails. It provides content for our Instagram channel. It provides content for everything. So no longer am I sitting at the computer trying to come up with what to say to my audience this week and sending out a weekly newsletter, but it's literally just pulled from the podcast it's content that's already been created.

[00:30:54] So it can really help you save so much time in your marketing in that way as well. [00:31:00] And so. That's just on the marketing side, you know, another reason why podcasting can be so effective is because of the connection you can create with your community. And, you know, we, we all like to buy from people who we know and that we like and trust, but typically in today's day and age, especially in the digital world, it takes a long time for, to warm someone up.

[00:31:25] You know, if someone doesn't know you. To get them ready to enter your funnel or much less buy from you. They have to be following you for a while to really feel like they get to know you. And that process can take such a long time and be very slow. But podcasting condenses that time because someone can listen to an episode or two and they can say, Wow.

[00:31:48] This person really seems to know what they're talking about. I'm curious. I wanna learn more. And when you structure your episodes with the intent of leading that person to a clear call to [00:32:00] action, then that call to action becomes the natural next step for them. And so it becomes very easy to move people from listener into lead, to get them into your funnel.

[00:32:13] And then eventually to customer and that the timeframe that that would normally take on social media or elsewhere is shortened so much through podcasting. So those are just a few ways I'm gonna pause there. You might have more questions, but this really, I could talk about this particular aspect of podcasting all day, because it really is that effective.

[00:32:35] Dilip: Right?

[00:32:37] It really makes a lot of sense. And some of the things that you just said in terms of, uh, channelizing, those listeners to something that you have to offer, I think that is much simpler with podcasting in comparison to social media. And, you know, I can agree with that because I've been seeing how difficult it is to get those social media followers, to move away from these social [00:33:00] media channels, to some of the other assets that we have.

[00:33:03] And more so because today, you know, social media channels are also, uh, insisting on keeping people on their platform. You know, how, uh, Pinterest has launched idea pins and they're focusing more on idea pins so that people stay on their platform. Similarly with Instagram, where you just have that one link so that, uh, people stay on the platform.

[00:33:22] So it actually makes a lot of sense, uh, because podcast is much easier to get users to move over. Uh, to whatever it is that you're offering. Yeah, you're right.

[00:33:32] Courtney: Yes. And to your point about that, I will say this too sometimes, facebook Instagram will even penalize you and not show your posts as frequently if you include a link somewhere else.

[00:33:46] Correct. So you're so right about that. They don't want you to leave the platform. And so it could be very difficult to get people off of that platform and into your funnel or to book a call with you or whatever it might be.

[00:33:58] Dilip: Right? Yeah. Good point. [00:34:00] And, uh, coming to putting a structure around podcasting.

[00:34:05] So, uh, Courtney now, one of the biggest reason that I see people, and this is something that I've, uh, known through the conversations that I've had with a lot of people who are either starting their podcast, looking at starting their Podcast, or who have started their podcast, but have stopped in between. The biggest obstacle or the biggest problem that these people face is in terms of the overwhelm around podcasting.

[00:34:33] Like for example, there are multiple things that you have to do. You have to, uh, there are a lot of people who keep talking about strategy, monetization, promotion, and all of this is a lot of overwhelm for somebody who's just planning to start out. So if I am to ask you and considering you are somebody who is extremely good, hold over, putting a system in place when it comes to running a business, what is your thought about putting a framework [00:35:00] on podcasting?

[00:35:00] What do you recommend? What is the kind of framework that you would recommend that somebody should follow? When they want to start a podcast.

[00:35:10] Courtney: Yeah. Great question. There's a few systems that I would recommend that all work together to really make podcasting as easy and effortless as possible and take as little of your time as possible.

[00:35:23] You know, one thing that I notice happens to people sometimes is they'll start podcast without a clear content strategy. And if you lack that, then a couple of things can happen. Number one, you'll be showing up to record episodes that don't really lead people anywhere. So it'll be very difficult to convert people from your show.

[00:35:43] And that can be discouraging if that's the end goal is to get someone onto your email list or into your marketing funnel or sales funnel. And so often people grow frustrated with that, but it's because of a lack of a clear content strategy. So that's system number one. System number two [00:36:00] is your launch mechanism and a mistake, many people make is hitting publish on their first episode or two or three episodes.

[00:36:09] And thinking that that's a launch, they, oh, I launched my podcast, but there's a lot more that goes into it to really help you build that momentum from on the moment you release that first episode. So that would be system number two, and then system number three is I call it your leverage system, but this has to do with monetization and how you are driving your listeners to your products, your programs, your services, and also how you are leveraging your message in order to reach new audience is so there's a couple of aspects there.

[00:36:48] So one aspect of leverage is monetization, and then the other aspect is leveraging your message to get in front of an audience. And I'll explain a bit about what that [00:37:00] means. But these are the three systems that I recommend and they all work together. So number one, your content strategy, which this is something we teach inside of my main program called the effortless podcasting formula, where we teach an episode structure.

[00:37:14] And the beauty of having structure is that no matter what topic you sit down to record about, it follows the same framework, the same format. And what that does for you is that it saves time in creating this content. And what it does for your listener is it creates a very cohesive listening experience and really helps to enhance their experience because the show follows the, the same format, even though the topics might vary.

[00:37:42] so that's really important. And creating a journey for your listener through your content so that whenever you give them that call to action at the end, you know, Hey, go sign up for this or download this, or book a call here or buy this. They're ready for it. You've primed them. And they're ready [00:38:00] to take that next step.

[00:38:02] So then the launch system, that is something that is so important when you're first launching your podcast. However, if you're rebranding your podcast, if you are celebrating a podcast anniversary, it's your first year, your first five years, or however much first a hundred episodes, right can be a very effective strategy that you can repeat.

[00:38:26] For the lifetime of your podcast. And the launch process. Again, I teach this in depth in my main program, but to give you kind of a, a peek into what it involves is really just getting your existing audience involved in the creation process of your podcast, because when you can leverage your existing community and I've seen people do it from

[00:38:50] a very small audience of 50 people all the way to people who have audiences of 10,000, 20,000 people or more. So it [00:39:00] doesn't matter the size of your audience, right? As much as it matters about you getting them involved in the, behind the scenes of what you are creating. People love that. And when you can get them invested in supporting your show and doing that in a very, uh, very.

[00:39:18] Timed way where you have a specific launch day and you have them go in and, you know, support the show on that day through various means of supporting that show. Then you will increase your chances of ranking on apple and some of these podcasting platforms, which gives you momentum to reach a wider audience.

[00:39:39] Who wouldn't have seen you otherwise, because now you're, it's kind of like, think of it like an Instagram reel going viral. You know, if people are all in there liking and commenting and, and really engaging with that reel, then Instagram's gonna show it to more people. And the podcasting algorithm is similar though

[00:39:57] thankfully, not as complicated as Instagram, [00:40:00] but when you can get people engaging with your content, Then it helps to boost your episode or your show so that you can be seen by more people. And that helps you to build momentum much more quickly and increase your download. So that's why that launch strategy is so important.

[00:40:18] And then the leverage strategy, which is the monetization piece and how to continue reaching wider audience is to scale your podcast. And that really has to do with, you know, let's say for example, you bring guests onto your show. How are you leveraging that guest's network? Are you asking that guest for referrals, for other guests who could appear on your show?

[00:40:42] Are you asking that guest to commit, to sharing that show episode on social media, through their email list? What I found early on, I made the mistake of not utilizing my guest networks. And so I would invite guests on and they would come on, they would share their expertise. And that was [00:41:00] it. I wouldn't get in front of their audience cuz they didn't share the episode or they didn't talk about it.

[00:41:05] But now upfront we have our guests commit to doing that and we won't accept guests who don't agree to doing that, you know, because that is the win for us. It's the, to get in front of their audience as well. So little things like that, that I call it's all part of this leverage strategy, but really helping you

[00:41:23] maximize every little amount of time and energy that you're putting into your show so that it really pays off for you as an asset for your business, for the long run.

[00:41:35] Dilip: Right? Yeah. Good point. Yeah. So I had a question on that. Now you said, uh, when we are launching, seeing a podcast, you spoke about leveraging your existing audience.

[00:41:47] So this audience that you are talking about are those, uh, the audience that the people that we follow or who follows me on social media or. Uh, maybe it is an email list that you already have. What [00:42:00] kind of an audience, uh, will that be?

[00:42:02] Courtney: Yes. Great question. So to clarify, your existing audience could be your audience that you have on social media, your existing email list, anyone who might be in a Facebook group with you or connected with you on LinkedIn, it could is some of the Facebook groups that maybe you don't necessarily run, but that you belong to.

[00:42:21] and you're engaged in, you have colleagues there. Um, I like to think of your audience and maybe a better word for it would be your network. So this could even include friends, mm-hmm and family, and anyone who you have a relationship with. And that person wants to see you succeed. They want to support you.

[00:42:39] I say, get all of them involved, you know, and of course, with podcasting, yes, we wanna attract our ideal client. But in the, in the early days of getting a podcast up, or if your podcast, you know, you've stopped podcasting for a while and you wanna reboost your momentum, or you wanna just give your podcast some more momentum, because you know, [00:43:00] hasn't grown like quickly as you want, then getting all of these people involved, anyone who supports you in the work doing can be very beneficial, um, to giving your podcast that boost that it needs,

[00:43:13] to then attract your ideal client from there. Cause that's a question I'll get, you know, well, my friends and family, aren't exactly the ideal person that I wanna reach with this show, but that's okay because their engagement still helps your podcast in terms of, you know, I mentioned the timeline that, um, you know, there's a timeline you wanna think about,

[00:43:32] when launching, and usually it's about 48 hours that really can make or break the, the boosted momentum for your show's visibility. So, you know, by having those people support you in that timeframe, like it can really, really make a huge difference.

[00:43:48] Dilip: Right. And, uh, in fact, I was about to ask you that question and I think, uh, you answered it before I asked you because you know, a lot of times we actually think [00:44:00] in many.

[00:44:02] When, when we are talking about existing audience or, uh, existing listeners, the question that we usually ask is when I don't have an audience, who is it that I would be able to leverage. So that was a question that I had, and I think you answered it because, um, you know, that friends, family, and if you are on Facebook, and if I look at my close network, my friends, my coworkers, my family members, I think that itself is a huge audience, which I can leverage.

[00:44:31] So, yeah, I agree. That's a, that's a very good strategy.

[00:44:34] Courtney: Yes. And it's funny cuz when people tell me I have no audience, I'm like, oh yes you do. Let's take a look. You know, and it really is. It's really tapping into, and that's why I think network is, is in a better way to even describe that. I should probably stop saying audience, start saying, you know, tap into your network because there are people in your life who support you.

[00:44:51] You, we all have those relationships with people. And I had someone email me just last week who was thinking about starting a podcast. And they said, [00:45:00] you know, I have zero audience. And what he meant was he hasn't grown an audience for his business yet. He doesn't have an email list. He doesn't have a Facebook group.

[00:45:12] He doesn't really have a social media following, but he absolutely has people in his network colleagues. Former coworkers, friends, family. And that's why I always say people who wanna see you succeed, who would support you no matter what, even if they're not your I ideal client, they can still offer their support in the launch of your show, which can really make a big difference.

[00:45:36] Dilip: Right. Yeah. And, and I completely agree on that. And another question that I had, uh, is. When it comes to podcasting, and I've seen this with a lot of people who start of podcasting and when they talk about monetization, the only thing that comes to their mind is getting sponsorship for their podcast. And they're so focused on trying on getting post sponsorship, but.[00:46:00]

[00:46:00] Eventually they don't get any, because it's not easy to get sponsorship for a podcast until unless you have millions of downloads or millions of listens. So what's your perspective on that? Do you really think that sponsorship is a core monetization strategy that somebody should follow? Or if that is not the case, how should somebody look at podcast monetization?

[00:46:22] What are the other options that you recommend for somebody who wants to monetize their podcast?

[00:46:28] Courtney: Yes. Okay. So before I share this, I actually have a free guide that I created, which I would love to share with your listeners about monetization and, uh, this isn't, wasn't something we talked about before. So if it's okay with you, I'd love to share a link for them.

[00:46:43] Sure. Um, To this guide. Okay. So what the link that you would go to will create a custom link. It will be the effortless life.co/podcast university. And I'll send that link over to you as well, so that we can put that in the show notes and [00:47:00] people can access this, but I'm glad you brought this up because this is a very common question.

[00:47:05] And most people think that to monetize a podcast. You have to have sponsors or advertisers. And that's kind of where most people's minds go is, well, I gotta find these sponsors or these advertisers who can sponsor my show or, or provide, you know, the monetary support for my show. And that is an option to monetize your podcast.

[00:47:29] But there are over 20 ways that you can monetize a podcast without sponsors or advertisers. And so what this guide does is it actually gives you a breakdown of three of the other ways that you can monetize your show, which I'll touch on briefly here in a moment without worrying about pitching advertisers or sponsors and ways to monetize, even if you have a small audience, because here's the thing.

[00:47:55] Advertisers and sponsors are looking to get in front of as [00:48:00] many people as possible. It's the same reason. Coca-Cola I think it's, Coca-Cola sponsors, you know, the American idol show or America's got talent, you know, whatever that, that show is, you know, they sponsor that show because they want as many eyeballs on their product as possible.

[00:48:16] So podcast sponsorships work much the same way they wanna see you have, you know, 10,000 downloads an episode because they know if you share their product with your community, then they're gonna get in front of a lot of people. And that's often how the pay structure works as well. Based on your listener base.

[00:48:36] And so for new podcasters or for podcasters who have a very niche audience for podcasters, who just haven't reached that benchmark yet sponsorships and advertising can actually get very frustrating very quickly because you're gonna get a lot of rejections. They're not going to be looking to advertise necessarily on smaller shows.

[00:48:55] However, if you have a smaller show and if your intention [00:49:00] is actually, you know, I always say this, why share someone else's product and promote someone else's product when you could be promoting your own product. So if you are a content creator, and you might have, you know, let's say an online course or a mini course, or if you're a service provider or a consultant and, or a coach, right.

[00:49:20] There's there's products and services that you might already provide. And I don't know about you, but for me, I would much rather have people buy my programs and services than buy someone else's that I'm promoting on my own podcast. So that's one of the shortcuts to monetization is simply promoting your own

[00:49:37] stuff. And this is why the content strategy is so important as well, because you're actually leading people to be prepared to take that next step with you. But in this guide, I talk about two other ways that you can also monetize a show even with a smaller audience. And so I wanna share that guide with your listeners because you know, it's easy to download.

[00:49:56] It's easy to consume and quickly see, you know, these [00:50:00] shortcuts to monetization, I call them. So that you can begin to monetize your show because again, at the end of the day, Podcasting we podcast with a purpose, right. And, and yes, one of your, your motivators might be to reach people with your message, to help people to transform their lives, whatever it might be.

[00:50:18] But it's also nice if we can make money doing that. So in order to monetize, you know, that's very important and there are several ways that you can do that, right. Even just, you know, and sponsorship and advertising can come down the road. You know, when you, when you implement some of these things and, and you see that podcast growth, And that that will come, then you can add that.

[00:50:40] And then at that point, it's just an extra stream of revenue. Um, I had a student recently who said to me, she said, you know, Courtney, my high ticket coaching program is a $10,000 investment. And she said, I now have more leads and new students coming into that program than before from the podcast. [00:51:00] So, you know, that's just so powerful in terms of what it can do for your business.

[00:51:05] And even if your program is not that expensive, if it's, you know, I have a, a $49 program that will promote on the podcast sometimes, which is, you know, not a, a high ticket investment by any means, but still it's that revenue coming in that can cover your E oil costs. It can cover, um, Anything it covers your time.

[00:51:25] Right. You know, to show up and, and share these episodes. So,

[00:51:29] Dilip: okay. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So before I let you go, Courtney, one last question that I had. For somebody who's getting started with podcasting. If you are to advise on two most important things that they need focus on, what will those two things be?

[00:51:48] Courtney: First? I would look at your show positioning and circle back to this episode and go re-listen to that part in really looking at [00:52:00] what your unique angle of expertise is that you bring to the, to the table on your topic. That's gonna bode so well for you long term with your podcast. And I will say this podcasting is a long game.

[00:52:16] Podcasting is something that requires commitment. Mm-hmm and the people who've made it to the top of the charts and who sit there every week. Aren't there because they launched their podcast yesterday. They're there because they've been around for a while. And so just know that going into it, that podcasting is a commitment.

[00:52:35] And if you're committed to showing up every week, that way for your audience, you will do very well with podcasting. There's no way that you can fail because the consistency really is the secret to success here. Sure. There's a lot of other things you can do as we've talked about to really help boost your momentum and get you seen and noticed.

[00:52:52] But at the same time, a lot of it boils down to. Being very, very consistent in what you're doing. So that would be thing number one, look [00:53:00] at your show positioning. And I do have resources, you know, to help with this. If that's something you're interested in, you're more than welcome to reach out to me. And, uh, we can get you linked up with some of those resources, you know, to help you in, in taking that first step.

[00:53:13] But the second thing that I would do, and this is would recommend is I would sit down with a blank sheet of paper and I would write down a list. Of 25 people who, you know, would support you in the launch of your podcast or the relaunch of your podcast. And chances are, if you write down 25, you'll be able to write down 30.

[00:53:35] And if you write down 30, you might be able to find 35 and eventually you might, may, you might realize your list is 50 or 75 people long. Just keep writing until you cannot write anymore and make a launch list. We call this a launch list and. Of course in my program, I teach how to utilize that launch list and everything, but this is gonna be so key.

[00:53:55] And this is gonna set you apart in terms of launching your podcast. If you can [00:54:00] leverage your existing audience to support your show, when you release it, it's gonna be a game changer for you. So that would be my next action step for you is to just sit down and come up with your law launch list. And, and if nothing else to be surprised by how many people you actually know

[00:54:16] who could potentially support you in the launch of your show?

[00:54:19] Dilip: Yeah. Wonderful. Those are some very practical tips Courtney, and I think anybody who's getting started, these two things are something that, uh, they should actually be focusing on. Uh, absolutely right. Uh, so thanks. Thanks a lot for, uh, uh, coming on the show and sharing all of these practical tips and thanks for all of the information that you gave

[00:54:44] about aspects about systems framework in podcasting. Thanks for all of that information. It was a wonderful conversation, lot of insightful tips that you gave. So thanks again for joining me on the show and providing all of these tips.

[00:54:57] Courtney: Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. Thank you [00:55:00] so much. It's been a pleasure.

[00:55:07] Dilip: I hope you enjoyed this episode of the podcasting university and you like the discussion that we had with Courtney. If you like the show, then don't forget to subscribe to the podcast on your favorite podcasting platform. We are available on pretty much all podcasting platforms, including Google podcasts, apple podcasts, Stitcher tune in radio, Amazon prime music, Spotify, JioSaavn and Gaana.

[00:55:35] We are also available on Hubhopper. If you have any questions, don't forget to visit the podcasting university.com. You'll be able to find all of the show notes, the resources and the transcript there. If you have any questions, please feel free to reach out to me. And I will respond to all of your questions.

[00:55:54] And when you visit the podcasting university.com, don't forget to join the four day free email [00:56:00] course on the basics of podcasting. So that is all that I have for this week's episode. I'll be back again the next week with interesting conversation about podcasting until then keep listening to the podcasting university.

[00:56:14] This is goodbye from you all have. What wonderful rest of the week.

[00:56:31] Next week on the show,

[00:56:33] Guest: the first thing I would ask is why, what is the goal of this podcast? Why am I doing it? Am I doing it cause I want more clients. Is it because. I wanna build my network. Is it because I wanna support my community? Is it because I wanna learn, like, what is your why? Because if you're not clear on why you even want a podcast, you know, it, it it's kind of doomed, right.

[00:56:55] So why do I want a podcast?

[00:56:57] Dilip: So don't forget to join me [00:57:00] next week.